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JerseyJohn

WWII Speculations Thread

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Here's a better "What If".

What if the United States listend & followed the doctrine of President George Washington. A foriegn policy of isolationism. Instead of fighting & dying for Europeans, stay on American soil & serve the Lord Jesus Chirst.

If President Washington's policies were intact, USA would have not gotten involved in WW-1 either.

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More a guiding principle than a policy. In practical terms doing it literally would have been impossible, even in Washington's time. Look at American history from the Luisiana Purchase onwards and you can see staying still and not becoming involved beyond our own borders was never our policy.

Following the teachings of Jesus has also never been out national policy, and I thank Jesus for that. No mixing of church of state, that's the policy. As Hueristic used to say, Freedom of Religion also means Freedom from Religion. Thank God.

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More a guiding principle than a policy. In practical terms doing it literally would have been impossible, even in Washington's time. Look at American history from the Luisiana Purchase onwards and you can see staying still and not becoming involved beyond our own borders was never our policy.

Following the teachings of Jesus has also never been out national policy, and I thank Jesus for that. No mixing of church of state, that's the policy. As Hueristic used to say, Freedom of Religion also means Freedom from Religion. Thank God.

Look on your money. "In God We Trust", guess that should be changed. Should say "In God Some Trust".

Lets get back to subject. Lets sit around & talk about Adolf Hitler. Gee, he should have had lunch with some other Nazi fungus in Veinna in 1934. Wait, no. Adolf Hitler should have ate a couple bagels in 1935 with the glass manufactures. Wait, no. Adolf should have sold his sorry paintings & bought Stalin a beer in 1935, that better? Adolf could have taken over the world if he bought Jesse Owens some new shoes.

That's it! Adolf Hitler failed to take over the world because he didn't buy Jesse Owens shoes.

Everybody happy? I've solved the reasons why your hero Adolf Hitler didn't win world war 2. He refused to use Jesse Owens shoes! So run out to the store, buy a pair & start goosestepping.

-Legend

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BrotherRambo.

You are beginning to become obnoxious.

When you get off your pulpit we'll have discussions again.

Untill that happens this is the last time I reply to anything you have to say.

-- The dollar does say In God We Trust, but whose God? That's the difference; we are not a religious state but one that recognizes the rights of its citizens to believe, or not to believe, as they see fit.

Anyway, I hope the JJR I like and regard as my online brother returns soon. I honestly can't take the preachy zealot version.

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Adolf could have taken over the world if he bought Jesse Owens some new shoes. That's it! Adolf Hitler failed to take over the world because he didn't buy Jesse Owens shoes.

Everybody happy? I've solved the reasons why your hero Adolf Hitler didn't win world war 2. He refused to use Jesse Owens shoes! So run out to the store, buy a pair & start goosestepping.

-Legend

Jesse Owen did indeed run fast in those shoes. Rambo should I increase the speed of german infantry with 1 or 2 in my 1939 operation Owen scenario?

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Jesse Owen did indeed run fast in those shoes. Rambo should I increase the speed of german infantry with 1 or 2 in my 1939 operation Owen scenario?

I've changed history, called Phil Knight at Nike in Beaverton, Oregon to let him know. We'll start shipping out the new product lines:

1) From SC-1, we have the One-Size-Fits all General George S. Patton high topped shoe. It feels like a shoe, but kicks ass like a boot. Comes in various colors, including the kick-the-coward in the belly yellow. General Patton also has the Red-White-Blue 'hit the beach' wing tips. All "tips" are red, perfect for any American dreaming of invading Russia. Please note: All Patton shoes come shipped with paste your own general stars. Promote your shoes as you kill Nazis & Reds.

2) From SC-Pacific, we are now shipping the "Outer Island Mudder Beach Sandals". Tired of landing on useless Islands with the wrong shoe? We now have a two-in-one shoe.....walk on the deck of your PT-109 with these dockers look-a-likes; but be ready to stroll-in-style on on a worthless island full of Japs ready to blow your head off.

3) And finally for all Buntalovers. Are you tired of watching the History Channel to see your hero die in a bunker? We've changed history for you! The Jesse Owens turned Adolf Hitler "Sprint Thru Europe Olympic '36" track shoes. Are you all good little Adolfs? In no time, you'll run be goosestepping thru your Mom's house in a brand new pair! Different styles & colors include the "Hitler Watercolor Black Art", perfect for any hippie wannabee Bunta who wants to rebel but not go all the way to Hell.

*** Coming this Spring, the "Mastor of Race" all purpose sneakers. We've become political correct, allowing you be the "Masterace", but Adolf was misunderstood. He wants you to Master The Race of Running!

Operators are standing by now. Just mention this ad & we'll include a Camp Rambo T-Shirt.

It is what it is.

Stay thirsty my friends. I'm the most interesting man in the world.

-Legend

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... I've solved the reasons why your hero Adolf Hitler didn't win world war 2. He refused to use Jesse Owens shoes! So run out to the store, buy a pair & start goosestepping.

-Legend

We're back where we were when you first came in here as an obnoxious selfimportant braggart insulting everyone in sight.

You've crossed the line. I have no idea why, but you have.

And I'm making a formal complaint to the moderators.

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Now that things have calmed down......

I have yet another "what-if" to offer up, perhaps one that some might decide to pursue in the Global game: Operation Sphinx. After the fall of France, and Germany had decided a direct invasion of Britain was unwinable, what if at that time in the fall of 1940 germany had pursued a Mediterrean plan of seizing Gibraltor, invaded Malta, and had put a more sizable force into Tunisia to take Egypt and proceed into Syria and Palestine to grab the oil fields in the Middle East, and bring Turkey into the Axis? This was apparently a plan at the time that was discarded.

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Hitler actually was thinking along those lines. He thought Spain joining the Axis after the fall of France was an automatic. That was the big stumbling point.

Part of the mistake was assuming British control of Gibraltar was a big issue with the Spanish; it wasn't. They just finished having a Civil War and it would have been the worst possible time for the new Franco government to wage war against a major sea power. Franco would have joined the Axis when he was afraid of a German invasion, which was part of the reason insisted on France giving her the western strip connecting German occupied France with Spain. But even before Hitler went to meet Franco, he'd sent Admiral Canaris, an anti-Nazi, to do the groundwork. Canaris informed Franco that Germany had already sent most of its ground troops east to prepare for the Russian invasion, and Franco, no longer fearing for his own country, stood up to Hitler and refused to join the Axis.

The north African situation was made complicated by Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia being part of Vichy France, which was also outside of the Axis.

They definitely needed to take Malta at the very least before going on to Egypt, but even with that there was the Quatarra Depression in Egypt, which gave an almost insurmountable advantage to the defender by denying the attacker a chance to run the outflanking move always used by both sides in Libya and Western Egypt.

I think the only Axis chance in the Middle East would have been to back Iraq by sending those troops and air units there, getting the British out, thus inflicting an oil problem on Britain while moving to eliminate Germany's, and from Iraq going into the Sanai from the east and through Egypt from the west. I think the British would have been forced to pull out of Egypt, or risk having its army there cut off with the fall of the Suez Canal.

With Britain out of Iraq and Egypt at that point both Gibraltar and Malta become almost academic, to be dealt with later on. Gibraltar, remaining in allied hands, would still have been important in allowing British naval access to the Western and Central Mediteranean for possible future landings.

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My pleasure SeaMonkey. At this point I think all the European possibilities are well worn with us, and that would be an understatement. :D

We discussed many of these things almost to death in the old SC-1 Forum before there were even any definite plans for SC-2.

The difference now is we'll be able to put them into plausible scenarios.

-- I had a post in SC-1 specifically about that first and last meeting between Hitler and Franco. If the discussion swings back that way I'll try to find it, and paste it here somewhere. It would be just as relevant to these discussions as it was to the ones we were having five or six years back. :cool:

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JJ,

I agree completely. Even if some of these do not become "official" campaigns or scenarios, many of us might still try to use them as strategies in the Global game, or even "tweak" them a bit in the Game Editor. Seems very possible (or even probable) to do with all of the new changes being made for the Global game. :cool:

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Agreed 100%, Snowstorm. I don't know if I'll be doing any myself till I have a shot at the actual editor, but even if I don't I'm very eager to see what others come up with. And, of course, to play the mods that come with the game. :cool::)

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