The future of the Mac and Combat Mission

[gibsonm]

If its a 12” PB then sorry, it only boots in OS X.

Of the current PB product line, the 12“ and 17” only boot in OS X.

The 15” will boot into both OS 9 and OS X but it has a Radeon graphics card which means the game looks like it was written by people using mind alerting substances (or should I saw more severely altering substances than those actually used - I’m sure CMBO and CMBB’s development was accompanied by more than the odd beverage or coffee).

[Berlichtingen]

I'm about as diehard a Machead as your likely to meet. I owned an original Mac when they came out and have an iMac(G4) and a dual G4 tower. I will probably be buying a G5 next year. That said, I just plopped down $700 on a PC to play CM. I call it my Playstation, because that's all it is good for... games. Don't want to go PC? Used G4s are going for about $400 on e-bay

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

I'm about as diehard a Machead as your likely to meet. I owned an original Mac when they came out and have an iMac(G4) and a dual G4 tower. I will probably be buying a G5 next year. That said, I just plopped down $700 on a PC to play CM. I call it my Playstation, because that's all it is good for... games. Don't want to go PC? Used G4s are going for about $400 on e-bay

Well I didn’t go that far - (I do have some standards!) but I have kept my old 500Mhz G4 PB because it ran CMBO and CMBB very nicely. Hopefully it will be happy with CMAK too.

[RSColonel_131st]

Originally posted by rune:

4. ATI is responsible for their drivers. Just as NVidia is reponsible for their drivers under Windows XP. Coding for a bug in drivers is a sure way to get stuck coding again and again as drivers change and some bugs are fixed.

Rune

That is all nice and dandy, but so far neither the new Nvidia Cards or new Ati Cards seem to work flawless.

I can play CMBB, but I have problems with all menu screens etc... just because of the Nvidia Driver Bug.

Fact remains that Nvidia is not going to change a thing - why should they, every other game I own does work with their current driver set.

I'll most likely not buy CMAK because of this annoyance.

I wish BTS would show to be the better men, accept that Ati/Nvidia screwed up and fix it themself. Letting the blame go around in a circle does fix nothing for us customers.

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by RSColonel_131st:

I wish BTS would show to be the better men, accept that Ati/Nvidia screwed up and fix it themself. Letting the blame go around in a circle does fix nothing for us customers.

That comment was uncalled for. BFC has stated on numerous occasions that it is not a case of 'fixing' it... it is a case of rewriting it. They are rewriting the engine... gonna probably take a couple of years. In the mean time, they are going to produce CMAK using the existing engine. Do you honestly think Steve and Charles (couple of Macheads)are happy that Apple stopped supporting the ATI APIs? You seem to be advocating that BFC make EVERYONE wait for the 'fix' rather than the few that it actually effects

[Jarmo]

an iMac(G4) and a dual G4 tower

And neither of those runs CM? :eek:

Bad luck shopping...

[RSColonel_131st]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

You seem to be advocating that BFC make EVERYONE wait for the 'fix' rather than the few that it actually effects

The "few that it actually effects" are going to become more and more with time. The new Geforce Cards require new drivers, and the new drivers have that nasty bug in their FSAA coding that means A) FSAA looks like ****e below 4x, and you have to alt-tab a hundred times to desktop and back to get over the black screens and frozen menu screens.

Meanwhile new macs are not running the engine correctly anymore, and the new ati cards also have this or that problem...not as heavy as the mac problems but still it does not run as it is meant to be.

As a result more and more people who upgrade their components or drivers to keep track with other games or software will find themself on the "sorry, not supported" list. And being "not supported" means you lose otherwise loyal customers who feel ignored.

[Schrullenhaft]

You seem to be under the false impression that these problems can actually be coded around. Once a video driver isn't doing something properly, there may be very little that can be done to fix it from the game developer's standpoint. It's not a simple little patch that can be coded up in a half hour. It requires that the game developer stop using certain API calls and recode large segments of the game (depending on where the problem crops up at). In this case it may mean that there is no way to fully support CM under RAVE with the current generation of drivers that have been released.

The issue boils down to the developers of video drivers not really paying attention to RAVE API calls anymore. When RAVE API functions are broken in these drivers, there's very little call to fix them since most of the developers on the Mac have moved to OpenGL. I'd suspect that all of your 'other games' most likely aren't RAVE, but OpenGL. Until CM is recoded in OpenGL on the Mac, more and more problems are probably going to crop up since RAVE just isn't getting the attention of the video driver developers and more bugs will probably creep into the OS 9.x RAVE code as newer drivers are released.

These problems aren't falling on deaf ears at BFC/BTS. These problems have been logged with the appropriate developer contacts at both video companies. However there is probably very little that will result from these requests since RAVE is becoming an ignored API. The video driver developers are concentrating the efforts and manpower on OpenGL. They may have even stopped RAVE development/testing on their drivers altogether (which could explain the increasing number of problems the newer drivers are exhibiting).

Unfortunately for Mac users CMAK will be based on the same engine as CMBB (with a few small tweaks). However there is probably nothing that BFC/BTS can do for either of these games to make them work with the latest drivers. The only guaranteed method of changing that is to change the API to OpenGL - an arduous task that will probably take Charles 2 + years (well, there will be a lot of changes in CMX2 also). That's far too long to wait for your next paycheck; so the necessity for CMAK to use the current engine - despite Mac user problems.

[Panzertruppe]

Schrullenhaft hit it right on the head! Why should "Battlefront" take the "brunt" of the problems caused by makers of the new computers and video cards? The new "FX" cards can't run any intertainment software (games) without problems.

With all the new computers...OS's and Vid cards....I'll stick to my P3-866..Geforce 2 that runs the CM games just wonderful!

If I were Battlefront I would just say..."If it works...don't fix it"!

[Pzman]

Agreed, blaming BTS wont help. I know I was lucky to find a older G4 (although only 400MHz) with a nice 32mb ATI card which doesn't have these problems. Due to that I will most likely have to go out buy a newer Mac if I want to play CMX2 games, but thats two years from now. If it you really want to blame someone give Apple a kick in the head for not supporting RAVE properly under Classic.

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by Jarmo:

And neither of those runs CM? :eek:

Bad luck shopping...

They both do... I just don't like booting into OS 9

[Måkjager]

I have been chewing over the whole "future of CM on the Mac" for the last couple of months in the light of me being a "Magpie" that likes to collect &hold onto his favoured things.

CMBO / CMBB and CMAK fall into the basket of "favoured things" that i want to hold onto.

My current setup is a DP800 G4 with a Apple 17" LCD , OEM Radeon 32MB video card , 1.5Gigs of RAM . 2x80GHD ( internal ) and a Lacie 120GHD ( external).

The future of the current CM games for me holds in store a new Radeon 8500 64MB video card , replacement of the dual 800s with at least a 1.467Ghz single cpu and fingers crossed a new bigger display....the display may come before the cpu.

I will have my mac set up when the time comes to have each seperate internal HD with only one OS on it....1st for CM/OS9 and the second for OSX. The external will be dual boot and be used as backups to the two internals.

As for CM / BFC and Apple Mac's...right now BFC have to concentrate on getting CMAK out the door and releasing some funds so they can actually have some income over the next 6-18 months while CMX2 is being developed.

We will be in good hands for the future with BFC once they complete MCX2 /OpenGL/OSX as THAT is and has to be the main focus for them seeing as OSX will be the defacto OS for Macs in the foreseeable future.

Regards

Måkjager

[Major Jerkov]

Originally posted by The_Rooster:

There has been an ongoing (past several months) thread about New Macs and others who have upgraded their video card (specifically ATI 9000 pro) not being able to play the game because they get a psychedelic display.

After watching this thread and posting to it over the last several months it appears that the following sad truths are evident:

1)Apple is not doing anything about this issue

2)ATI is not doing anything about this issue

3)The games creator is not doing anything about this issue

Which adds up to NO ONE is doing anything about this issue.

I must say I find this very disheartening. I have enjoyed many many hours of great gameplay overthe past few years but it looks as if that is over now. In addition I will not be purchasing any more games from this company. While I don't blame them for doing nothing about this issue; there are to few people affected, it would cost to much to do it, it can't be fixed, etc., I would hope that they would take notice of the fact that they will be losing all their Mac customers in the future as people buy new machines. Again this may be of little consequence to battlefront, lets face it, we Mac users are to small a slice of the pie for them to stand up and get involved in trying to help us out. $'s talk, Macs walk.

Again i want to stress that there are no hard feelings on my part, I am just very bummed that it looks like this is the end.

If anybody hears of a real fix to the issue please let me know at: czara@attbi.com

Thanks again battlefront for the good times. :confused:

[kmead]

With the announced release of the G5, Apple strangely reverted the G4s to the earlier version that will boot into OS9.2.2

This is available in two versions, a single processor version with a 1.25 and a dual 1.25. The pricing ranges from 1300 to 3k with a nice stripped dual processor model running under 1600.

These machines have 4 HD bays, two optical bays and 4 slots for add in cards. Two USB 1.1 and 2 Firewire 400

There are older PCI based video cards available, so it is possible to run the new card for the day to day work and switch to the other video card to run the CMB series. You could either switch your cable around or use a KVM switch to go from one card to the other with ease, or run multiple monitors.

All in all for a Mac these are good machines and will give good service for a long time. I bought this same generation of machine last fall with dual 867 processors and have since added a Superdrive, changed to a faster CDR/RW, added 2 more drives and upped the ram to 2gb. It works very well and plays the CM series very nicely.

The OSX issue has been banging around for a long time, I was among the first to really demand an answer from BTS/BFC. I don't think Matt or Steve have ever forgiven me for it

I am certain that no one is more unhappy that the CM series is being left by the wayside by new Mac users than the BFC developers. And not just for the incremental income our small percentage of the sales market gives them. During the development of CMBB they tried to make it compatible with Classic under X, but unfortunately the limitations of Rave under Classic wouldn't allow it.

So, you can buy a older Mac preferably a G4 with a 16-32mb video card and play. Or buy a new one and put in a PCI or older AGP graphics card to play. Either one will allow you to enjoy CMBO CMBB and CMAK until the new engine comes out which will require you to upgrade to something faster anyway, Especially if you are a mod slut. So the news is not all bad.

[John Kettler]

kmead,

Thanks for a lucid discussion of additional options

for the sorely oppressed Mac users.

I'm increasingly convinced that at the decision making level Apple is both schizoid and self-destructive. A friend of mine who has been watching the firm since he bought the first Mac model agrees.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

I'm increasingly convinced that at the decision making level Apple is both schizoid and self-destructive.

Well, they've definitely done some peculiar and idiosyncratic things over the years, haven't they? Some have worked and some haven't. When they hit the groove, they can be brilliant. When they miss it...well, it just looks strange. Can you say "Cube"?

Michael

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

Can you say "Cube"?

Dumb idea for a computer, but it makes a great store

[Andreas]

Well, since all the MAc geeks are hanging around here, I have a question.

On my G4/400, when I am in OS9.2.2, it does not recognise the internal ZIP drive, or one of these cute USB memory sticks, at all. If I put in a Yip disk it asks me to reformat it. After reformatting, it asks me to reformat it. When I boot into OSX 10.2, it recognises everything and anything.

Does anyone know which extension I must have screwed up in OS9.2.2 to achieve this peculiar setup?

[Michael Emrys]

Andreas,

Look in your extension folder for Iomega Driver 6.0.8 or later. If it isn't there, find out where it went. If you can't find it, you need to download another copy.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

Can you say "Cube"?

Dumb idea for a computer, but it makes a great store </font>

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

Store"? You mean, as a place to keep pencils, and stuff?

:confused:

Michael

I live in the Chicago area. That's where they opened the first of their Superstores

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

I live in the Chicago area.

Having spent nine months in Chicago, I can't say I envy you that.

That's where they opened the first of their Superstores

All very interesting, I'm sure, but I don't see what that has to do with the Cube or my comment about it. But that's okay, don't bother explaining. It'd probably be more trouble than it's worth.

Michael

[aka_tom_w]

The shape and architecture of the new Apple stores look like the old Cube computer.

does that make sense?

-tom w

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

The shape and architecture of the new Apple stores look like the old Cube computer.

does that make sense?

I don't know about making sense, but I am more than willing to just drop the subject.

Michael

[Jarmo]

Originally posted by Andreas:

On my G4/400, when I am in OS9.2.2, it does not recognise the internal ZIP drive, or one of these cute USB memory sticks, at all. ....

Does anyone know which extension I must have screwed up in OS9.2.2 to achieve this peculiar setup?

Sounds like one of the USB extensions.

Do you have "USB device extension" in there?

If not, you can use "tome wiever" (search versiontracker and apple site) to get the USB extensions from an Apple installer file without doing a reinstall.