Next release: Nato-Modul!

[Damian90]

Firstly, M829A3 evolved from M829A2 after test on T-72M1's equiped with Kontakt-5 Heavy ERA, M829 and M829A1 can't perforate armor of such protected tanks.

In 90's US bought 4 T-84U with welded turrets and Nozh (Knife) IIIrd. gen heavy ERA, there were also reports that in 90's US bought some way some T-80U's from Russia, also tested one in Sweden (when Swedes make tests for their new tanks, originally they preffered M1A2's but US refuse armor technology transfer and German Leopard 2A5S won) and of course South Korean T-80U's, probably also Ukrainian T-80UD's also were tested in 90's.

So after such tests in 200x they fielded M829A3, it is completely different KE penetrator than other such type modern ammo.

This is very long rod (800mm) but also have, well, thick(?) diameter, it is heavy (new gen. DU alloy) and also slow to comparabale ammo, but thanks to that it have more penetration value and... thanks to it's slow flight sometimes Heavy ERA's like K-5 will just not work properly and even if, thanks to it's thick diameter M829A3 is less vurnabale to heavy ERA's work than let say DM-63.

DM-63 and other modern APFSDS are long rods (not so long as M829A3 by the way, rather slightly shorter) but are thin in diameter and fast so, heavy ERA's will work, penetrator is much more vurnabale to heavy ERA's detonation.

Besides this, thanks to thick diameter M829A3 will be much less predicted to broke when it starts to penetrate modern armor.

This is very complex thred and my knowledge is not so big about it.

Oh and one more thing, it seems that Du alloy penetrators works better on slower velocities, if faster than WHA seems to get some advantages, so for DU alloy penetrators optimal way is not to slow and not to fast.

And by the way, it seems that US works on M829E4 (when fielded M829A4), sometimes kalled AKE or Advanced Kinetic Energy Penetrator.

About tanks upgrades, well, US, Brits and Israel tanks saw extensive combat, so this is certain that proper upgrades are fielded and more advanced upgrades will be fielded in the nearest future. Germans, French and others now starts learn about true weak and strong points of their tanks, so we also see upgrades but not so fast.

Oh and most countries using Leo2's use German ammo like DM-33, DM-53 and DM-63, Poland have DM-33 but our ammo facielities works on domestic 120mm APFSDS rounds, we also have scalled down to 120mm a 125mm HE rounds that are used in our T-72M/M1's and PT-91's. ;-)

Sweden seems to use it's own ammo, but maybe it is just licence versions of German ammo, I don't know, the designation is different.

Spains Leo2A6E use probably DM-63 APFSDS and some HE rounds, no HEAT or MPAT were fieldes by Spains Army.

[Sequoia]

So what types of Leos do the Canadians and Netherlands use since we'll see them in the game?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

The Dutch use the 2A6. Canadians have mostly 2A4 with some 2A6 on loan for service in Afghanistan. Basically up to BFC to what the Canadians would end up using in Syria '08.

[Damian90]

In A-stan Canada use 20 German Leopard 2A6M with some modifications like Slat armor and some different equipment.

Netherlands use simple Leopard 2A6 IRCC.

Note: Leopard 2A6M is standard Leopard 2A6 but with underbelly addon armor, so M means that armor or mine/IED resistant, everyting else is standard.

Oh, yeah Canada bought Leopard 2A4's (~80) that will be upgrade slowly to Leopard 2A5 or A6 configuration, I must check more correct infos some day then I can tell more.

It's also seem that firs upgrade will be RH-M-120/L55 gun that replace original RH-M-120/L44, probably next will be turret upgrades (armor, FCS, turret drives etc.).

[akd]

I would think the Leopard C2 might also make an appearance, despite their record in A-stan.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Doubt it. With 2A6 and 2A4 that's one hundred tanks. I just don't see Canada deploy even more then that. So I think BFC will not bother working on yet another vehicle if they have a good rationalisation as to why they might not be deployed to Syria.

Can't say I blame them, with three armies to model they have enough on their plates, even with the large overlap of gear.

[Damian90]

Ok, Canada have 95 Leopard 2A4+ upgraded by mounting RH-M-120/L44 gun, 80 are from Netherlands and 15 grom Germany, this 15 tanks are standard version for training and parts, so 80 are Leopard 2A4+ and 15 Leopard 2A4.

40 Leopard 2A6 from Netherlands, 20 upgraded to leopard 2A6M + 20 German Leopard 2A6M used in A-stan. There is possibility that 20 German 2A6M's will stay in Canadian Land Forces and replace 20 ex Netherland 2A6's that weill be not upgraded.

in 2000 and 2001 114 Leopard C1 were upgraded to C2 standard.

[Redwolf]

Any idea about new Red stuff in here?

Anything without the dreaded "export" mark?

The Soviets came up with so many toys that we run around with in TacOps. Anything mobile AAA would also be very welcome and create a very good challenge to improperly equipped NATO attackers.

[Alan8325]

I can't think of many new weapons that the Syrians might actually use, other than ZSU-23s and rkg-3 HEAT hand grenades. They would be pretty cool to see though.

As far as other Red improvements go, I would like to see greater variety in Uncon vehicles and rag-tag uniforms. It would be purely visual in nature, but still welcome for greater immersion.

[Sequoia]

I can't think of many new weapons that the Syrians might actually use, other than ZSU-23s and rkg-3 HEAT hand grenades. They would be pretty cool to see though.

As far as other Red improvements go, I would like to see greater variety in Uncon vehicles and rag-tag uniforms. It would be purely visual in nature, but still welcome for greater immersion.

IIRC the Syrians have a 100mm Anti-tank gun though I can't find a source for that anymore. It's quite possible work on Anti-tank guns for the Normandy game will be far enough along to allow one in the NATO module along with a truck to go with it.

It would be fun to get some more Uncon stuff like the Toyota SUV that will be in the Afghanistan game.

[Lee]

My only request for a German ground vehicle in the German, Danish, Dutch, etc, module is this.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Haha . . . like skeet shooting, but better!

[MARS42]

@ Bulgaroktonos

Good morning! You asked for my expience with the G36.

G36 was not my standard-rifle, because during my duty-time, the G3 with 7,62 mm was normal in the army.

But i shot with the G36 several times, so i can say that the weapons is a great development, especially the transparent magazin with a clip, to mount another magazin at the left and the right, the visirs, the handling in burst-mode.

With the corss-hair-visir you can shoot a target up to 600m.

With the red dor visir you fight officially till 100 m, but i made also some easy shots at a distance of 200m with it.

The weapon can be used by left and right handers equally.

Here is a link to the Heckler & Koch website:

http://www.heckler-koch.de/HKWebText/detailProd/1928/85/4/19

Greets MARS42

[lomir]

Originally Posted by Smaragdadler

+ G3, MP7, Panzerfaust 3 and Wiesel (1+2)

...and of course Bundeswehr OPFOR training instructors with Wiegers. (DDR AK-74, in 5'56-NATO):

-> http://securityarms.com/20010315/gal.../1800/1851.htm

->>http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...d.php?t=133736

(please add the translucent polymere mags).

This or whole NATO-module will be completely broken beyond fixability, of course.

Sequoia quote:

I'm curious about these two uniforms. I assume the one on the right is what a Heer soldier would wear in Germany. What is the one in on the left? What does the Heer in Afganistan wear? I assume that's what will be used in the game.

Nope, that camouflage pattern is designated BGS-Sumpfmuster: a splinter pattern consisting of greenish sand, olive green and brown with dark green "raindrop pattern". It's been used since the 60's by the (West) German Borderpolice (Bundesgrenzschutz - BGS). Although the raindrop pattern resembles those uniforms used by the NVA (former East German Armed Forces) and other Warsaw Pact countries, it's a Western design.

In Syria the German Army (Deutsches Heer) would use the desert flecktarn jacket in three colours: tan background and green and brown spots. The desert uniform pattern is based on the standard German 5-colour flecktarn camouflage pattern used in the field jacket: green (13.3 %) is replacing black, brown is brown (17.5 %) and the dark green, light green and grey green are tan (69.2 %). Here is a photo of a German ISAF soldier by DAVID AXE:

Cheers,

Lomir

[akd]

Doubt it. With 2A6 and 2A4 that's one hundred tanks. I just don't see Canada deploy even more then that. So I think BFC will not bother working on yet another vehicle if they have a good rationalisation as to why they might not be deployed to Syria.

Can't say I blame them, with three armies to model they have enough on their plates, even with the large overlap of gear.

Remember, the game is set in the summer of 2008. One source I can find states that first 2A4s arrived in December 2008 to begin the rebuilding process. That leaves just the 20 2A6s shipped to Afghanistan in 2006 available.

http://www.casr.ca/bg-leopard2-netherlands.htm

[MARS42]

@ Battlefront - Team

Only for remembering: I repeat my questions from the beginning of this thead:

1. I know, you will not mention a release-date here, but will we see it in 2009 or 2010?

2. May you give me/us some sweets here about the weapons and vehicles we have to expect, not only for the Bundeswehr, also for the other armies.

3. Any other info about the NATO-Modul would be nice!

May anyone be so kind to give a short answer?

Greets MARS42

[Sequoia]

MARS, I'd like to know too, but Battlefront is careful about telling us things if they think it's too soon. If I may attempt too answer for them however...

1, They don't know for sure yet

2, You can expect all frontline vehicles and weapons for armored and armored infantry formations. Don't expect support vehicles and units. It most likely won't have airborne formations so, sad to say, the Wiesel is probably out.

However if you are or recently were an Officer or NCO or in the Heer, they could probably use you as a beta tester. Then you'll know more than us.

[Redwolf]

Remember, the game is set in the summer of 2008. One source I can find states that first 2A4s arrived in December 2008 to begin the rebuilding process. That leaves just the 20 2A6s shipped to Afghanistan in 2006 available.

http://www.casr.ca/bg-leopard2-netherlands.htm

The game plays in 2008, but not in 2008 as seen from 2009. It plays in a future 2008 as seen from 2007.

What is what would make it plausible to sneak in some of the cooler Russian gear. You could make a mental model that the Russians deliver better material that was previously not designated for export or not affordable to Syria, just to piss off the Western forces, or to have it combat evaluated or just because they need the cash and the Syrians would only pay for the cool stuff.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

@ Battlefront - Team

Only for remembering: I repeat my questions from the beginning of this thead:

1. I know, you will not mention a release-date here, but will we see it in 2009 or 2010?

Barring a complete disaster, you will see it before 2011. So, you will see it in 2009 OR 2010, but I can't speculate further on which.

2. May you give me/us some sweets here about the weapons and vehicles we have to expect, not only for the Bundeswehr, also for the other armies.

The folks who deal with PR are usually pretty good about giving out the equipment lists. Keep in mind that the NATO module hasn't been officially announced yet. That kind of also goes for #3.

3. Any other info about the NATO-Modul would be nice!

May anyone be so kind to give a short answer?

Greets MARS42

[Gryphon]

I wonder if they need Dutch voice actors

[Webwing]

I wonder if they need Dutch voice actors

Yes we do!

If you are interested send me an email:

cassio@battlefront.com

Thanks!

-

[Earl Grey]

Another intersting question is which nation will get which tank or if they'll include the Leopard for every nation (having different texture sets in this case). Does anyone know if, for example, Dutch Leopards use different equipment than their German counterparts?

[Sequoia]

Another intersting question is which nation will get which tank or if they'll include the Leopard for every nation (having different texture sets in this case). Does anyone know if, for example, Dutch Leopards use different equipment than their German counterparts?

From an earlier post in this tread:

The Dutch use the 2A6. Canadians have mostly 2A4 with some 2A6 on loan for service in Afghanistan. Basically up to BFC to what the Canadians would end up using in Syria '08.

[Damian90]

Another intersting question is which nation will get which tank or if they'll include the Leopard for every nation (having different texture sets in this case). Does anyone know if, for example, Dutch Leopards use different equipment than their German counterparts?

Different countries use different equipment, or sometimes same as Heer.

Duch IRCC use FN-MAG 58 mg's, maybe different radios.

[Sequoia]

Yes we do!

If you are interested send me an email:

cassio@battlefront.com

Thanks!

-

Which is a great confirmation that they are still planning on including the Dutch Army! Is the long hair thing really just with reservist so we wouldn't expect to have any in Syria?