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MARS42

Next release: Nato-Modul!

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Hello Battlefront,

after enjoying the British Campaign (congratulations to the developers), i´m looking forward to the NATO-Modul.

Someone mentioned in another thread, that your developers are working parallel on Normandy and NATO. As a German, i am logically very interested on all things, which deal with the Bundeswehr in the new game.

1. I know, you will not mention a release-date here, but will we see it in 2009 or 2010?

2. May you give me/us some sweets here about the weapons and vehicles we have to expect, not only for the Bundeswehr, also for the other armies.

3. Any other info about the NATO-Modul would be nice! :D

Minimum type of vehicles and weapons i would like to see in the german contingent:

Dingo, Fennek, Fuchs, Leopard 2 A6, Marder A3, G36, MG3, MG4

By the way: Please colour the german vehicles with the new Afghanistan camouflage, dark brown and sand.

Greets MARS42

post-30178-141867621385_thumb.jpg

post-30178-141867621386_thumb.jpg

post-30178-141867621387_thumb.jpg

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Hello Battlefront,

...Minimum type of vehicles and weapons i would like to see in the german contingent:

Dingo, Fennek, Fuchs, Leopard 2 A6, Marder A3, G36, MG3, MG4...

+ G3, MP7, Panzerfaust 3 and Wiesel (1+2)

...and of course Bundeswehr OPFOR training instructors with Wiegers. (DDR AK-74, in 5'56-NATO):

weiger94001gv1.jpg

-> http://securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1800/1851.htm

->>http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=133736

(please add the translucent polymere mags).

This or whole NATO-module will be completely broken beyond fixability, of course.

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And you absolutely have to accurately depict the debates of the German government before every engagement if the German sldiers may actually fire back if shot at - and that they won't use their weapons if decide against. Oh, and, of course, they'll only do some recon and patrol missions, no actual combat in a direct way. And have traffic tickets inlcuded for each German driver who breaks road traffic regulations!

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@ Earl Grey: In the NATO-Modul, the goverment has made the decision, that we are going to war and invade a country. So your, in fact, realistic and cynical thoughts, can be forgotten here! ;)

@ Smaragdadler: I need a little help, what must i do, that my pictures are not attached, but can be seen complete. Thank you!

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German armor were be Leopard 2A4 (with eventually AMAP addon armor), Leopard 2A5 and 2A6 with eventually PSO and UrbOp addon armor kits and other usefull equipment, Marder 1A3 and Marder 1A5 (addon underbelly armor).

Denmark use Leopard 2A5DK, well in fact it is Leopard 2A4DK but upgraded to 2A5 variant (new turret, upgraded glacis, upgraded internal equipment).

Most European countries use Leopard 2 tanks from A4 version to A6, Spain and Greece use Leopard 2A6E and Leopard 2A6HEL, this are derivatives of Leopard 2A6EX prototype, and Leo2A6EX is derivative of TVM Maximum prototype (from this prototype evolved Swedish Leopard 2A5S/Strv122).

About armor protection I written in Western/NATO tanks thread. :-)

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Normandy and NATO (and Afghanistan) are in parallel development right now. Which will come out first is yet to be seen :) (could well be in reverse order of what I wrote above)

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In the NATO-Modul, the goverment has made the decision, that we are going to war and invade a country. So your, in fact, realistic and cynical thoughts, can be forgotten here! ;)

I know, I know... But things have improced now, haven't they? At least our soldiers are allowed to shoot now - even when they haven't been shot at.

But seriously, I doubt we'll be seeing German forces in the NATO module - German equipment, yes. But German soldiers? Since when have we begun attacking other countries again?

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I know, I know... But things have improced now, haven't they? At least our soldiers are allowed to shoot now - even when they haven't been shot at.

But seriously, I doubt we'll be seeing German forces in the NATO module - German equipment, yes. But German soldiers? Since when have we begun attacking other countries again?

Um, you WILL be seeing German soldiers. :) This has been said for some time now.

FYI, I've been doing international security policy research at a German university for the last couple of months, and from what I've learned Germany's policy seems to be leaning more and more towards actual interventionism in cases like the fictional background as presented in CM:SF. Getting a little OT, here, though. ;)

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Um, you WILL be seeing German soldiers. :) This has been said for some time now.

Well, I haven't been following CMSF development as closely as I could have, apparently. But all the better - as long as we at least get some 2A5 rather than those outdated 2A4. Are we still using those, actually?

Side note: Can't wait to tackle US forces with German equipment on my side... *G*

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Hello Battlefront,

after enjoying the British Campaign (congratulations to the developers), i´m looking forward to the NATO-Modul.

Someone mentioned in another thread, that your developers are working parallel on Normandy and NATO. As a German, i am logically very interested on all things, which deal with the Bundeswehr in the new game.

1. I know, you will not mention a release-date here, but will we see it in 2009 or 2010?

2. May you give me/us some sweets here about the weapons and vehicles we have to expect, not only for the Bundeswehr, also for the other armies.

3. Any other info about the NATO-Modul would be nice! :D

Minimum type of vehicles and weapons i would like to see in the german contingent:

Dingo, Fennek, Fuchs, Leopard 2 A6, Marder A3, G36, MG3, MG4

By the way: Please colour the german vehicles with the new Afghanistan camouflage, dark brown and sand.

Greets MARS42

German Bundeswehr forces MUST have a Weisel!!

WieselArmouredWeaponsCarrierWiesel2.jpg

wiesel_006.jpg

weshot1lg.jpg

wiesel2_002.jpg

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But all the better - as long as we at least get some 2A5 rather than those outdated 2A4. Are we still using those, actually?

Yes, Heer have approx 800 tanks, 400 are Leopard 2A5 and leopard 2A6 in first line units, 400 another are Leopard 2A4's in second line, reserve and training units.

Side note: Can't wait to tackle US forces with German equipment on my side... *G*

Something worth to say, as EU countries are cut funding for their armies US under Gates cut funding only on some programs that are not needed for fast deploy in armed forces.

So really don't expect that you destroy US.Army HBCT that is well commanded, of course i say HBCT vs. German tank or mech infantry battalion.

Hmmm but then again it is very hard to compare HBCT to other type of such units, in other words, HBCT is a hybrid of tank and mech inf brigade (it is more modular/flexible, more independent to it's mother division etc.), other countries have tank brigades or mech inf brigades as separate units.

So in your position I would use flank manouvere, frontal attack is a suicide. ;-)

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Yes I think we'll get lots of WWII North Africa -but with technology 65 years more advanced- scenarios once the NATO module comes out. It's scary to think what Hitler would have done with nukes though.

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Yes, Heer have approx 800 tanks, 400 are Leopard 2A5 and leopard 2A6 in first line units, 400 another are Leopard 2A4's in second line, reserve and training units.

Ah, I see. Thought there were only a few 2A4 left in training units.

So really don't expect that you destroy US.Army HBCT that is well commanded, of course i say HBCT vs. German tank or mech infantry battalion.

It will be interesting to see with what structure BFC comes up ocne the NATO module is in development and how well that comaprs to current US structures.

So in your position I would use flank manouvere, frontal attack is a suicide. ;-)

Oh, I'm mroe thinking of a tank vs. tank scenario for a start - everything else comes later. Besides, the MG42 still is the best machinegun there is and we still use it. :D

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@ M1A1TC

The Wiesel (not Weisel ;)) ist mostly used by the light infantry, like Gebirgsjäger or Fallschirmjäger. So i don´t think, that we will see Wiesel in the NATO-Modul.

@ Damian90

I don´t think, that the German ground forces (Heer) have to hide from any US-ground force. :P

Our heavy equipment is excellent. The only exclusion is the Marder, which is a little bit old now and will be replaced in near futute by the PUMA.

Our Hand-Weapons with G36, MG4, MP7 from Heckler & Koch are all new and, in my opinion, the best handheld weapons in the world.

And, like mentioned before, the MG 3 (improved MG42) is the weapon with the best punch, a Infantrie-Gruppe can have! :D

Our Kampftruppen-Soldiers are well trained and can mess with all Nato-Partners, that´s my experience in several international exercises. (I´m a retired Army-Captain)

Conclusion:

Don´t make the mistake to compare the careful and defensive german politicians with the skills of our troops. They did not have the possibility to show their full capacities until now.

(By the way: Our foreign policy is okay! Because of our history, we have to think twice, before we send our army into a foreign country.)

Greets, MARS42

mg3.jpg

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It will be interesting to see with what structure BFC comes up ocne the NATO module is in development and how well that comaprs to current US structures.

Structures will be probably like in reality have any army that will be in NATO module. ;-)

Oh, I'm mroe thinking of a tank vs. tank scenario for a start - everything else comes later. Besides, the MG42 still is the best machinegun there is and we still use it.

Tank vs. Tank? Hoho I don't wan't fight against M1A1HC even in Leopard 2A6, Yanks after 1987 really get's their attention on upgrading armor and firepower, so M1A1HC (also M1A1HA+) and M1A2 even as early and mid 90's tech are tough enemy, not to mention newer M1A1SA's, M1A1FEP's and M1A2SEP's. ;-)

So I saying you, only flank attack's! ;-)

Hmmm but then again, AI is preatty stupid so you can try front attack. ;-P

MG-42 is one of the best machineguns in the world, ehm and no it is not used by Bundeswehr but it modern derivative MG-3, still great MG comparabale to FN-MAG 58 or M240, also PK/PKM is great MG.

Germany have many really good weapon designs, but as all armies around the world also worser designs. ;-)

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Every military in the world should simply have adopted the MG-42 and stayed with right thru to today, virtually unchanged. But "if its not broke , don't fix it" is not the best thing for contractor budgets. Oh well. :(

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+ G3, MP7, Panzerfaust 3 and Wiesel (1+2)

...and of course Bundeswehr OPFOR training instructors with Wiegers. (DDR AK-74, in 5'56-NATO):

weiger94001gv1.jpg

-> http://securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1800/1851.htm

->>http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=133736

(please add the translucent polymere mags).

This or whole NATO-module will be completely broken beyond fixability, of course.

I'm curious about these two uniforms. I assume the one on the right is what a Heer soldier would wear in Germany. What is the one in on the left? What does the Heer in Afganistan wear? I assume that's what will be used in the game.

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I don´t think, that the German ground forces (Heer) have to hide from any US-ground force.

I didn't say hide, I say think twise before you attack from the front. ;-)

US ground forces just have so overhelming fire power, air support that any other ground forces can only dream about them. :-)

Our heavy equipment is excellent. The only exclusion is the Marder, which is a little bit old now and will be replaced in near futute by the PUMA.

I Never said that it is not excellent! But from specs, estimates and etc. we can assumpt that Leo2 is less armored than M1A1HA+/HC/M1A2, M1A1SA/FEP and M1A2SEP, just compare LOS thickness of rontal turret armor, these M1's front LOS thickness is 875-900mm LOS (new estimate I just discover some time ago thanks to my "friend"), side turret LOS is 350-400mm LOS (also new estimation) on full side turret lenght.

In comparission, all Leo2's front turret armor is 600-650mm LOS, side over crew compartment is 200-250mm LOS, side turret armor over turret bustle is 100-150mm LOS without special armor inserts.

+ of course on 2A5/A6 variants thin steel/rubber wedge armor on turret front:

leopard-2a5_turret_construction_1.jpg

leopard-2a5_turret_construction_12.jpg

5a3sky.jpg

2us7dyw.jpg

2vvqb9x.jpg

And about Puma, yeah, great monster, really, really great design I must say, but I especially waiting for HAPC Namer with RCWS-30, SPIKE ATGM's and MG, this will be an IFV with insane amount of armor protection!

And Marder 1 is great IFV! old but great, very good armored, maybe new turret with stab and bigger gun will do the trick? ;-)

Oh and I forget, PZH-2000! Yes, this is definetly best SPH in the world, shame that this idiot Rumsfeld "kill" XM2001 Crusader. :-(

Our Hand-Weapons with G36, MG4, MP7 from Heckler & Koch are all new and, in my opinion, the best handheld weapons in the world.

And, like mentioned before, the MG 3 (improved MG42) is the weapon with the best punch, a Infantrie-Gruppe can have!

Our Kampftruppen-Soldiers are well trained and can mess with all Nato-Partners, that´s my experience in several international exercises. (I´m a retired Army-Captain)

Conclusion:

Don´t make the mistake to compare the careful and defensive german politicians with the skills of our troops. They did not have the possibility to show their full capacities until now.

(By the way: Our foreign policy is okay! Because of our history, we have to think twice, before we send our army into a foreign country.)

Oh I agree with that, never said that Bundeswehr is not a potent armed forces!

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