"Mission for Mussolini" on MilChan's a must see for grogs

[John Kettler]

It first aired Friday night on the Military Channel on Time Warner Cable and was far better than I dared hope. It primarily revolves around the personal task Mussolini assigned to military war correspondent to CORRIERE DELLA SERRA Teniente Luigi Romersa (who after the war had a glittering career in international journalism and is on camera a lot in this doc): to determine the factual basis for Hitler's reassurances of Nazi superweapons, to include a bomb of devastating power. In pursuit of this, Romersa, armed with letters from the Duce himself, was allowed by Hitler to go to the top secret weapon development and test centers off limits to even most German generals.

These reportedly included witnessing of a German atomic test on the island of Rugen, for which radiologic evidence exists even today. Further, evidence is shown of a second test at Ohrdruf, and the surviving eyewitness is interviewed on camera. Also presented are chilling statements from KZ survivors who participated in the horrific cleanup of this live test on some 500 Russian POWs. There are discussions of the overt and covert German atomic programs, of SS involvement, interviews with the author of THE GERMAN BOMB, even four separate proofs from the Italian state archives that Romersa did in fact have meetings with Il Duce. Much of what's in the doc goes well beyond Dr. Joseph Farrell's REICH OF THE BLACK SUN http://www.missilegate.com/rfz/swaz/index.htm and acts to flesh it out in places, but I'm not sure I agree at all with the suggestion in the doc that the Ohrdruf test was of a dirty bomb.

In short, this is an eye popping documentary well worth the time of any of you seriously interested in atomic research, the history of the Bomb, German secret weapons and much more. It is particularly valuable in that most of the principals are on camera and can be carefully studied while they speak, giving a sense of them and their veracity impossible to obtain by merely reading their statements. Would imagine they'll repeat this, for it breaks stunning new ground in a little known area of historic investigation and complements docs NatGeo and the History Channel have aired lately on various German black projects.

Regards,

John Kettler

[mike_the_wino]

On page 66 Albert Speer, Armaments Minister or sumfink, declares at his Nuremburg trial no such weapons exist in an exchange with the American prosecutor. Isn't that what those in the industry call 'pretty convincing evidence'?

[Wilhammer]

On page 66 Albert Speer, Armaments Minister or sumfink, declares at his Nuremburg trial no such weapons exist in an exchange with the American prosecutor. Isn't that what those in the industry call 'pretty convincing evidence'?

good Luck Mike....

BTW, the choice of the word Atomic Weapons is misleading - it is entirely possible they tried a dirty bomb, but anyone can do that. Obviously the idea of a Trinity level test is absurd - had they done so it is logicla it would have been 'tested' on the battlefield.

And despite the testing claims, the real tests by real authorities turned up nothing.

The kernel of truth - the Germans were working on atomic energy - but they lacked the industrial capacity and wiped out or cause the emigration of their best scientists.

[Sgt Joch]

I seem to recall that the US look very closely after the war at what the status was and came to the conclusion that the germans were still far away from producing a working bomb.

[gunnergoz]

Based upon all that I've heard over the years, I too would have to say it was more likely a "dirty" bomb, if anything, and not a fission weapon. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Nazi's had been thinking about dropping biologicals, chemical toxics or radioactives on the US East coast. That seems like something the little fiends would give a try to...

[John Kettler]

Guys,

While I can certainly understand your reaction, given that REICH OF THE BLACK SUN shattered my entire model of atomic weapon history, including college courses on the history of science & technology, the case Joseph Farrell makes is persuasive, however upsetting. Please read the online book, watch the "Mission for Mussolini" doc and some of the stuff the History Channel has aired on the Nazi bomb, Nazi uranium intended for Japan being seized from the sub U-234 and sent to the 50% short of production (despite all out effort and around the clock work) target Manhattan Project for apparent inclusion in Little Boy, etc.

Further, Luftwaffe war plans from 1943 clearly indicate a full blown atomic strike of at least Hiroshima yield was being evaluated against Manhattan. See page 91 here, then start translating the legends on the map.

http://missilegate.com/rfz/swaz/chapter5.htm#a

It becomes even more credible when you look at some of the supporting evidence, such as overhead WW II imagery of a sprawling I.G. Farben "Buna" plant at Monowice, Poland whose own directors said at Nuremberg it never produced so much as a kilo of Buna. It matches, in every key particular, the same site criteria used at Oak Ridge, with the added twist of slave labor from Auschwitz.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/aerialfarben.html

Here's Oak Ridge's Y-12 facility for U235 electromagnetic isotope separation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-12_National_Security_Complex

Also, one of the points Farrell makes is that the Germans pioneered ultra centrifuge separation technology, much more efficient than the U.S. calutrons, and to this day, we find this German technology showing up in the hands of nuclear powers and wannabes.

See "Nuclear" entry here.

http://cns.miis.edu/iraq/caseintr.htm

As I said, I know this is hard to accept. Indeed, I found grokking this concept to be intellectually shattering--and that was before I had to deal with what the Japanese did!

Even so, once I picked up my brains, dusted them off and carried on, I found the weight of evidence impossible to ignore and a giant chasm between official history and what the newly discovered and declassified evidence showed. Nor did it help that I was born and bred in a country whose very sense of self and its place in history was based on getting the Bomb first.

There definitely are technological evidences for German interest in and work to field dirty bombs. British aeronautical engineer Philip Henshall talks about this in his book VENGEANCE, presenting photos and engineering surveys of various V-weapon sites, as did the History Channel in a piece it did on a notional Horten flying wing bomber attack on New York. A quick look at the Luftwaffe planning map shows, though, that that weapon isn't a dirty bomb.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Here's a pertinent article from Physics World.com (be sure to view the diagrams) detailing some of the new information on the German Bomb projects. Karlsch is one of the people interviewed on "Mission for Mussolini." Took a trip on the Internet Wayback Machine to retrieve this one.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071123071122rn_3/physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/22270

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wicky]

Goodness John - you are a sucker for punishment - Is your memory so poor that you've forgotten your infamous V2 atomic missile silo debacle;

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/c/castel_vendon/index.shtml

and if you'll be a good chap please google fu the original general forum thread to avoid having to go through it all again.

G

There definitely are technological evidences for German interest in and work to field dirty bombs. British aeronautical engineer Philip Henshall talks about this in his book VENGEANCE, presenting photos and engineering surveys of various V-weapon sites

[mike_the_wino]

Guys,

While I can certainly understand your reaction, given that REICH OF THE BLACK SUN shattered my entire model of atomic weapon history, including college courses on the history of science & technology, the case Joseph Farrell makes is persuasive, however upsetting.

Again, Albert Speer himself said those weapons didn't exist. At his trial. Where we were hanging Nazis like Christmas lights. If anyone ever had more reason to come clean about a secret I would be surprised. His claims that such a project never existed, he would have known. Ockham's razor dictates we scale back the wide-eye dreaming a bit here, kids.

It becomes even more credible when you look at some of the supporting evidence, such as overhead WW II imagery of a sprawling I.G. Farben "Buna" plant at Monowice, Poland whose own directors said at Nuremberg it never produced so much as a kilo of Buna. It matches, in every key particular, the same site criteria used at Oak Ridge, with the added twist of slave labor from Auschwitz.

Really? Those rotten Nazis misled us? They didn't produce 'Buna' at Auschwitz? Or is it possible that 'Massive Extermination Plant for Unwanted People, mostly Jews, Gypsies, Gays and Russians' would A) not fit on the sign out front or call too much attention to what was going on? Seriously.

As I said, I know this is hard to accept. Indeed, I found grokking this concept to be intellectually shattering--and that was before I had to deal with what the Japanese did!

Even so, once I picked up my brains, dusted them off and carried on, I found the weight of evidence impossible to ignore and a giant chasm between official history and what the newly discovered and declassified evidence showed. Nor did it help that I was born and bred in a country whose very sense of self and its place in history was based on getting the Bomb first.

meh

There definitely are technological evidences for German interest in and work to field dirty bombs.

Long way off from a nuclear bomb, if it's true.

[Wilhammer]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

John will eventually get us to the above website - I figured we can just rush this along...or, in order to reinvigorate the old GF, which is all but dead, should we go the whole nine yards - Nazi Nuke and UFO Technology used by Greys and Reptoids controlled by the Illuminati bring down the WTC on 9/11 by Presidential Request stuff again?

Ahh, the Good Old Days...

[mike_the_wino]

Willhammer, you buffoon....you left out the Jews. Are you part of the Zionist, World Government cover-up as well? Or are you just duped by the media?

[Wicky]

The Ruskies knew how to deal with pesky nazi saucers...

[Wilhammer]

Willhammer, you buffoon....you left out the Jews. Are you part of the Zionist, World Government cover-up as well? Or are you just duped by the media?

No, I did not forget.

One of my more recent FTF opponents I found for the Eden War Room is a die hard Zionist Conspiracy fruitcake, so I guess it was a matter of thinking I have already delivered a beating about it, most recently this past Saturday.

=============

On another note, The Website those antiNaziUfo plane pictures came from is awesome!

[Michael Emrys]

The Ruskies knew how to deal with pesky nazi saucers...

Those 6" (or more likely considering their origin, 152mm) turrets must have had a pretty hefty recoil, especially if fired simultaneously. But it looks to me that the airframe would have prevented them from being trained very far off the line of longitudinal axis. Perhaps that didn't matter to the designers, but then, why put the guns in turrets?

I don't mind people fantasizing, but this kind of thing always seems to demonstrate a dismal lack of imagination.

Michael

[JonS]

I don't mind people fantasizing, but this kind of thing always seems to demonstrate a dismal lack of imagination.

Why does that plane have a tail wheel?

[Wilhammer]

Why does that plane have a tail wheel?

Its a spare. Notice the picture of the plane diving on the UfoNazi? It's turrets have been replaced. But what with?

[costard]

Booster rockets so's to follow the pesky Nazis into outer space. Re-entry is optional, and not covered by the warranty.

[JonS]

Looks like the fantasists came up with a couple of different configs

http://englishrussia.com/?p=2231

Edit: curiously, the Nazi UFO appears to have underslung T-34 turrets. I guess they didn't get the memo about only using Panther turrets when underslinging.

Edit2: The 'Welcome to the Fountain' photo set is way more fun than the fantasy planes. The "Fallen Earth' one is neat too.

[Stalins Organ]

Reich of the black sun is just a joke.

The leaps of faith would get a 10 in the Olypmics if it was a floor event for sheer audacity, and the illogic is breathtaking in its cupidity.

As an example (I'm not going to look it up again - shouldn't be too hard to find to book's text is online) there's a bit on the test on Rugen where the author says that the "time frame" of the test and Hitler finally acceeding to research on Nuclear weapons means that the test "could only be a nuclear weapon" or some similar words to the same effect.

and what I've just written is pretty much the sum of the evidence - a couple of bits of info and hey presto a nuclear bomb is invented. Bet the allies were pissed at paying so much for their one when they found out how easy it could be!

It would be a joke if it weren't serious ...oh hang on......yeah - it IS a joke!

[John Kettler]

Wicky,

Two separate issues. The one is about partially constructed French coastal defense gun barbettes which were misidentified as being V-2 silos, an error later corrected in Henshall's NUCLEAR AXIS, but which saw print in my article "Hitler's Nukes" (based on Henshall's first V-weapon book VENGEANCE) and was subsequently publicly corrected by me after some here provided proof that Henshall had it wrong. This one, though, is about what he found regarding German structures designed to irradiate materials for inclusion in a dirty bomb, to include a previously unknown V-2 warhead design. Suggest you read VENGEANCE for the details and ground truth discoveries. His on site surveys go beyond any book on the V-weapons I've ever seen.

Don't know where your Nazi UFO eater came from, but somebody did a lot of rendering work. Tupolev or Antonov OKB? Either way, someone's in big trouble for leaving off the Soviet national markings!

Stalin's Organist,

You can clearly see some of the radiological test results for yourself from Rugen, together with the apparent Ground Zero post detonation imagery, if you watch "Mission for Mussolini." In REICH OF THE BLACK SUN, Farrrell notes, too, that the background radiation levels at Ohrdruf, putative site of a boosted fission device test, are the highest in Germany.

JonS,

Actually, the photographic evidence also shows versions with an underslung Mark IV turret.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wilhammer]

John,

From what I have read, your preferred tome that claims the radiation levels is the ONLY source that claims the high levels, and that the Germ Gv't itself tested the area, and found nothing significant, after they the compensated for the elevated levels due to Chernobyl.

In other words, the book and the Mussolini Mission is all a farce.

[mike_the_wino]

Its a spare. Notice the picture of the plane diving on the UfoNazi? It's turrets have been replaced. But what with?

I spent more time studying and contrasting those two pics. I am with Emrys on the practicality of a large bore cannon on a plane so I was trying to figure out if that was some sort of recoilless system. After going back and forth for about five minutes I realized how silly and that I wasting my valuable time at work. So I went back to Facebook and took some more quizzes.

[Michael Emrys]

...I was trying to figure out if that was some sort of recoilless system.

I considered that also, but quickly rejected it due to lack of any apparent gun barrels on the front of the objects in question. Besides, the size of the exhaust nozzles would be out of proportion from any RR I have seen. I too think they are intended by the artist to represent some kind of super RATO boosters. Probably would tear the airframe apart if they were ever fired.

To expand on my earlier comment, people who draw this kind of thing are usually just enacting some kind of adolescent power fantasy with no regard for practicalities. Not exactly a hanging offense and I'm cool with it as long as nobody thinks it had a chance in hell of actually working.

Michael

[Wilhammer]

I considered that also, but quickly rejected it due to lack of any apparent gun barrels on the front of the objects in question. Besides, the size of the exhaust nozzles would be out of proportion from any RR I have seen. I too think they are intended by the artist to represent some kind of super RATO boosters. Probably would tear the airframe apart if they were ever fired.

To expand on my earlier comment, people who draw this kind of thing are usually just enacting some kind of adolescent power fantasy with no regard for practicalities. Not exactly a hanging offense and I'm cool with it as long as nobody thinks it had a chance in hell of actually working.

Michael

...and as long as those who see these things don't use them for proof of the existence of bizarre history....

[Stalins Organ]

- painted in German colours this Piaggio 108A sports a 4" gun firing out the nose (it's the little thing poking slightly down from the a/c) - the Italians were awake to the need to intercept UFO's, and figuring that UFO's might be fast but without control surfaces they would be fairly unmanouvreable, they thought a 4-engined bomber would suffice.

Of course we now know that the UFO's were actually very manouvreable and the Italians just got it wrong.

More drawings: