Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
General_solomon

TOW2 released version first impressions

Recommended Posts

@Russkly:

You have to use the close tag to properly quote someone:

{QUOTE}quoted text goes here{/QUOTE}.

Just use these brackets instead of the round brackets above --> [ ]

@GoodGuy,

Thanks.

So you actually have to ctrl+c to copy and then ctrl +v to paste, and then manually insert "

before the bit you want to quote, and then
" at the end of it?

Now let's see if this works...

R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@GoodGuy,

Thanks.

So you actually have to ctrl+c to copy and then ctrl +v to paste, and then manually insert "" at the end of it?

Now let's see if this works...R

lol ... you just push the quote button instead of reply. Then the entire original post is being quoted with a {/QUOTE} tag at the very end (you must have deleted that each time), along with the nickname of the author on top of it. In case u just want to quote parts of the posting, but maybe even several parts, you add {/QUOTE} at the end of the first part - then you add your reply right below, and then you work your way through the rest of the posting by adding {QUOTE}text{/QUOTE} and your comments accordingly, deleting the sections you don't want to include. That's the fastest way.

Then make sure you delete the last {/QUOTE} tag at the very end of the text window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tanks in TOW1 and TOW2 stop in their tracks before going to the next waypoint, even if the next waypoint resides let's say 10 degrees from the initial heading, only. This leads to frustrating situations in the game, as it's not possible to quickly bypass enemy gun positions....

I hate to quote myself, but I want to make sure that Sneaksie doesn't get distracted so he can provide an answer. :D Can this be fixed/changed?

The same behaviour (tank stopping to change direction) occurs when a new single move order is being issued while the tank rolls. It's not a bit realistic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russkly

SPOILER: In the 1st scenario (Kasserine Pass) of the British campaign, deploy the units in their default positions and then move them back towards the end of the wadi they're in (retreating, as it were). The LeIGs cannot have LOS, and there can also be no FO that far forward at that point, I don't think.

Anyway the arty zeroes in immediately on the moving vehicles and infantry, and I have lost half the platoon in 30 seconds.

Same happens (at any stage in the scenario), if, on reching the gully at the back of said wadi, you turn into the adjacent wadi on the left to approach the first village the Germans attack. Even single infantrymen get targeted by unerringly accurate arty.

Defintely a bug, in my book, and rather annoying.

Ahh This was not arty, there are minefields, both anti-tank and anti-personnel! That's why Germans are forced to go through all three passes.

Harsh! Unmarked minefields placed immediately BEHIND the starting dispositions! That's Soviet doctrine lol.

Quote:

Agree with Good Guy about infantry manning arty. AT guns I can get, but not arty - even platoon subalterns were not trained to operate arty. Perhaps down the barrel aiming in extremis, as you say, but nothing more.

Maybe we'll make no-LOS firing available only from certain Gunner skill level.

That would be a good step forward - not sure how many arty-trained infantrymen you'd find in a standard British 1943 infantry section, however. Probably none, so perhaps it should simply not be possible?

Furthermore, who is able to perform as an FO in the game? From what I know, it should either be 'embedded' FOs, probably at nothing less than battalion (company?) level, or, at a push, platoon commanders.

Quote:

Also, lots of the voices are American, not British, which detracts a little from the realism!

You mean that British soldiers speak like Americans? Can you tell which frases are American for example?

Three so far:

Get rid man (at least I think that's what he's saying)

Target out of sight

We're gonna die here

Will post more as I replay the first 3 scenarios of the Bristish campaign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sneaksie

Tank will move very slowly and twitchy, engine will fail frequently and so on.

I think this is realistic, as driving a tank is totally different from driving a car or truck. Inexperienced or impatient tank drivers could very well damage or destroy a Tiger's/Panther's gear, just by starting the engine and pulling away without using clutch and gas smoothly - this was an issue with some inexperienced German training units mostly, which sometimes were rushed to the front in 1945, but even happened to experienced crews who transitioned to Tiger/Panther tanks. But in theory, infantry can at least move a friendly tank and provide direct fire, but with extended loading times for the main gun, as they have to get familiar with the instruments.

OK, I can get the driving thing - even I could drive an AFV432 after a few minutes' training, but operating the weaponry?

Fundamentally in all the reading I've done about WWII I have never come across instances of infantry manning tanks. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong, since, as stated before, it is a core element of ToW2.

Looking forward to surrender options - getting a few diehard tank crews and infantry, which need to be surrounded and pounded before they bail/panic. I would suggest that casualty rates in game are MUCH higher than in real life.

Good thread - some interesting and fundamental points being debated, and thanks to you, Sneaksie, for being so vigilant and fair in your replies.

R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Sneaksie: Are loading times changed for inexperienced crews????

No, but the loader can panic since he is usually least experienced crewmen, which will lead to disastrous results (main gun won't be loaded). Loading time itself is random between 2 preset times for this gun, for example between 5 and 6 secs.

Tanks in TOW1 and TOW2 stop in their tracks before going to the next waypoint, even if the next waypoint resides let's say 10 degrees from the initial heading, only. This leads to frustrating situations in the game, as it's not possible to quickly bypass enemy gun positions: friendly tanks (well and enemy tanks too) are extremely vulnerable during these moments, as they aren't firing/defending themselfs either. It's frustrating to loose tanks that in reality could go with 30 - 50 km per hour and which could perform curved movements very well. Tanks could drive curves. Check the original footage about Allied or German tanks. The desert campaign was pretty much about mobile warfare, but in the game, it's rather about sitting ducks (tanks) waiting to catch an enemy round.

This is one of the details which keep me from buying the game.

This was changed since demo, look:

Btw, is it possible to have the phrases less frequent (when giving orders) and maybe more random?. The voice samples are extremely repetitive and kill the immersion big time. Having several different phrases for the same command would change a lot, with a given unit just being silent for let's say the next 3 commands, before responding with a voice sample again. Then there should be phrases like "Yes sir", "On my way", "Affirmative" or "I'm on it", for example, to have some more varied voice responses.

There are different phrases, but their randomness sometimes appears not quite random. We'll look into this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would be a good step forward - not sure how many arty-trained infantrymen you'd find in a standard British 1943 infantry section, however. Probably none, so perhaps it should simply not be possible?

Furthermore, who is able to perform as an FO in the game? From what I know, it should either be 'embedded' FOs, probably at nothing less than battalion (company?) level, or, at a push, platoon commanders.

Since ordinary soldier has zero gunner and driver skills by default, this won't be a problem.

In addition, currently in the game howitzers won't automatically fire at targets spotted by someone else (this was changed in the release, in demo any enemy soldier shared his vision to arty). But you, player, can issue order for ground attack outside of LOS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sneaksie,

Thanks for your reply

"2. It seems you want tank sim Theoretically this can be done. BTW, there is a great ww2 tank sim Steel Fury."

If you were to make this possible in your game then you would be able to make it appeal to a wider audience in that people who like tank sims would also find this game appealing. It would add a whole new dimension.

I wanted to be able to give commands while driving the tank just to make it easier to do rather than twisting and turning with the mouse pointer. I like jumping in my tanks and guns to make sure they have a good firing position and cover etc, this sort of fine tuning would be easier with simple key commands. Left, right, forwand, back etc.

4. Exactly which frases got on your nerves?

It is not that certain phrases are more irritating than others, it is that the same ones are repeated over and over on frequently given commands of the same type, eg like moving position. Anything repeated enough times gets irritating.

As other people have pointed out the English voices are a mix of accents that sometimes do not correspond with the nationality of troops being commanded.

I am English with a slight Australian accent (and live in Germany, go figure that one out), I would be happy to do some voices for you and send them to you. It would be a form of immortality. Just send me a list of the ones you want, I am sure that other enthusiasts would also be willing to do this for the good of the game.

I speak German too and can say that the Germans sound German and do not have accent nationality problems.

Cheers

Alan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Since ordinary soldier has zero gunner and driver skills by default, this won't be a problem.

In addition, currently in the game howitzers won't automatically fire at targets spotted by someone else (this was changed in the release, in demo any enemy soldier shared his vision to arty). But you, player, can issue order for ground attack outside of LOS.

Thx, Sneaksie.

So, if I as the player can see a target or indeed a piece of ground, I can bring indirect artillery fire down on it?

This LOS could be from a bailed-out tank crew member, or a stranded tank, or a lone infantryman? Just needs LOS from someone to let me know the target or the area of ground's there?

If the case, wouldn't it be better for all indirect fire to have to directed by an appropriately-trained soldier? The only way to target ground, beyond an FO or officer with the appropriate net clearance, should be pre-sets, which is another thing altogether (I remember that CM modeled this well).

Indirect arty's so powerful, that I'd like to see it historically represented by precious FOs or the proper tank/infantry officers, or pre-sets. CM:SF does this well.

Interesting debate!

R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not that certain phrases are more irritating than others, it is that the same ones are repeated over and over on frequently given commands of the same type, eg like moving position. Anything repeated enough times gets irritating.

Right, that's what i think. This video (

), is a good example:

The sample "Follow the given direction" is played each time a given unit switches to a new waypoint, after having reached the last waypoint. When the player selects a unit, each unit responds with "Attention".

In the heat of a battle, players - who are quick at selecting/deselecting many different units (and giving a ton of orders) - will hear a plethora of in-game sounds which represent an endless chain of "Attention, attention / to the right / to the left / follow the given direction". It's extremely annoying.

Non-wargamers (and ppl who aren't as enthusiastic about games) listening to this may ask how one could stand all these repetitive sounds, and/or they may think one went nuts. lol

Even in old RTS games the unit chatter is usually toned down, as the units in these games either respond every 3rd or 4th click (selecting the unit) only, and the responses vary (having up to 5 different samples for the same type of response, i.e. "yes sir", affirmative, on your command, sir?, your orders?).

I am English with a slight Australian accent (and live in Germany....)

Where, if you don't mind me asking? :)

I speak German too and can say that the Germans sound German and do not have accent...
Yes, the German in the game sounds pretty neutral.

This was changed since demo, look:

Ohhhhh i am tempted to buy the game now... hmmmmm :D I really didn't like Moon's attitude regarding the policy with the digital download version and number of granted (re-)downloads/E-licensing, though.

Hmmmm.

Indirect arty's so powerful, that I'd like to see it historically represented by precious FOs or the proper tank/infantry officers, or pre-sets. CM:SF does this well.

@Sneaksie: Presets would be the most interesting add-in, as both sides actually used presets, but I don't know how much programming would be involved. I don't know if it's possible to implement forward observers, but an officer or dedicated FO with radio should be able to spot/relay target information and fire missions for on-board arty, reducing the spread of the shells.

The spread (with INDIRECT FIRE) is ridiculous currently (well, in the demo), the shells seem to "wander" within a huge box. I know that this is an abstraction to simulate the difficulties when conducting indirect fire missions without LOS (given, shells suffered of production tolerances regarding the propellant charges), but once a given arty unit had zero'ed in, it should at least hit the same area (let's say within a box of let's say 50 x 50 or 100 x 100 meters, depending on distance). Currently, some shells are extremely off, up to 400 meters.

As map dimensions and distances are rather small, the arty will usually not be sent to positions with LOS, as the player will not risk losing them just to get more accurate fire.

Historically, arty directed by FOs or units in the field was relatively accurate. So, can this be adjusted in the game?

Aircraft: Given the low altitude of the supporting bombers, the bombs are pretty inaccurate, they never hit anything at the spot where the player had placed the bombing mission. I'd reduce the number of available bombing runs and increase the accuracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've download and install new, beta version NVIDIA 185.81 forWin7 this morning. After couple hours of playing, loading, saving... not even once crash so far... Maybe this solve my problems with instability. Can anyone confirm this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So far I am enjoying it...

Impressions pretty much as for the demo:

Infantry with smoke capability at section level - can somebody let me know if this is realistic or not.

Artillery/AT guns wasting ammo and revealing position by expending rounds at single infantrymen.

Scouting does not seem to hinder enemy spotting - lone infantryman at 500m crawling to side of peak of ridge still spotted and taken out by hyper-accurate rifle fire.

Ability of ordinary infantry to spot for on-board artillery. Surely this should be restricted to FO at company level, or at least by section/platoon officers. Radio is a must for directing arty, or not?

Enemy infantry AI sometimes suicidal with failure to use ground.

Ability of infantry sections to crew AT guns and AFVs. How possible was this in reality? My guess/experience is that it was not - manning AFVs or arty requires trained personnel even to make it work, and setting "Driver" or "Gunner" to 0 is not prohibitive enough for me; ordinary infantry simply would not man a tank, and I don't know any infantrymen, who would be able to fire a field gun with any accuracy whatsoever, if at all.

I'm afraid we have the 'fight to the last man' situation again - twice now I've had to hunt through the village to find the last remaining infantryman. There needs to be some force surrender values set to avoid this unrealistic situation. Battles are usually not won by killing every last enemy combatant.

Plus some new ones:

During the Kasserine Pass campaign (1st mission) as the Brits, I experienced the most accurate off-board artillery barrage ever seen: moving tanks and infantry were hit as if the arty were using direct fire. Made me laugh until I had to re-start, because I lost 2 sections of infantry and an immobilised Valentine.

During the "Tactics" tutorial, I had a half-section of infantry sneak into a building (Action Mode set to "Sneak" and "Scout" command used). The door was on the opposite side if the building; to the right was the main road with a few metres of wooden fence, and to the left was a wall with some breaches allowing ingress. 4 men decided to sneak along the road in the open, past the un-scaleable wooden fence (lol) until they got caught in the open by a lone German with an MG42. Seems that micro-management of waypoints is still important, and infantryman don't act alone, especially not MG42s firing from the hip!

AFV bailing out - you get a lot of stranded AFVs, immobilised and even F-Killed, but still the crews sit in them enjoying the heat, thus enabling them to spot my units.

@General Solomon: You can group infantry together and clear out houses using the "Storm" command. They use grenades, although I haven't seen any yet throwing them through the windows before barging in.

R

Thread winner best review so far that I agree with. So hard sometimes to pick between the fanboys and the realistic reviewers. Thanks guy. Looks as though the game like the others still has a lot of work ahead of it before it's really ready for the masses. I'll wait and get it from the bargain bin like I did TOW1 recently. I guess that has become the trend nowadays game releases and one to two years later it's ready for purchase. Sure am glad there are demos to save some of us from wasting our money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Goodguy,

I am in the Bremen area.AL

I'm in Cologne. My father and my sister actually live in Bremen. How'd you end up in Bremen? :D It's quite boring up there, sometimes lol. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Goodguy: I am an english spy. But please dont till anyone.

Maybe we can link up sometime for an online game. You could send me an email through the youtube link below.

@Sneaksie: Here is a link to a youtube video, The Sherman Firefly commander is mostly voice acted by myself, just to show you what could be done :P

AL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crashes allot, memory leak im betting, happens most often if you load a save. Best fix for this is just restart the game if you want to load a save. The crashes can be pretty hard.

Lots of issues with infantry shooting, bad tendency for your own guys to shoot each other in the back if they bunch up, walk in front of each other ect. Only fix for this is to turn off auto fire untill they get in postion. And keep an eye on em.

Over all a good game, but the crashing is wearing on me. Since one of my answers to my men shooting each other is save allot. This is not restricted to infantry, mg teams, arty, ect game does not seem to pay attention to where your own men are when it comes to pulling the trigger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I´m using Vista64 and after playing the german campaign I have not had one single crash.

As for the "friendly fire" I had one case where an AT-gun shot one of my own tanks. But so what? It was my own fault, because I should have paid attention and should have prevented the movement of my own tanks in front of the AT guns- just as in reality.

Why am I defending the game? Because I like it and it is waaay better than TOW 1. I find that it deserves a greater audience as it works perfectly for me.

If you want to call me a "fanboy" do it! And to put oil in the flames: I never liked the combat mission series which everyone seems to use as a reference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I say friendly fire I mean i had a mg guy move to a window and kill the crew of an at-gun. If you are low crawling up ive had them bunch up a bit for terrain reasons and shoot the guy in front of them in the ass, fatally. Friendly fire did happen, but not this friendly. I would like a FF check box, so if you have the system you can run it and the ai will just draw a quick line of fire out to say 50 yards and if it hits one of your own he hold the trigger. Or better yet yells get out of the way dumb ass or something like that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course this tracing check is being made, but while aiming. One soldier shoots another 'in the ass' because when he aimed he had clean LOS but when he started firing other got in the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have also experienced this kind of friendly fire: in the first battle of the german campaign, I gave the order to one of my tanks to shoot at a building where a machinegunner was firing at my advancing infantery. Unfortunately, I did'nt notice that there was a building occupied by a few of my soldiers right in the trajectory of the shell. My panzer IV fired a shot and destroyed the building with my troops in it, killing everyone, where I was expecting the tank to move to a clear LOS position before firing. I suppose it happened because I used the order "target area" instead of direct fire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...