costard Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 You may have seen this one: This is an actual letter sent to the then DFAT (Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade) Minster, The Hon Alexander Downer and the then Immigration minister, The Hon Amanda Vanstone. The Government tried in desperation to censure the author, but got nowhere because every legal person who read it nearly wet themselves laughing! Please excuse the language contained within, but I suspect the author was somewhat upset? I'll let you decide! Dear Mr. Minister, I'm in the process of renewing my passport, and still cannot believe this. How is it that K-Mart has my address and telephone number, and knows that I bought a Television Set and Golf Clubs from them back in 1997, and yet, the Federal Government is still asking me where I was born and on what date. For Christ sakes, do you guys do this by hand? My birth date you have in my Medicare information, and it is on all the income tax forms I've filed for the past 40 years. It is on my driver's licence, on the last eight passports I've ever had, on all those stupid customs declaration forms I've had to fill out before being allowed off the planes over the last 30 years, and all those insufferable census forms that I've filled out every 5 years since 1966. Also..would somebody please take note, once and for all, that my mother's name is Audrey, my Father's name is Jack, and I'd be absolutely f**king astounded if that ever changed between now and when I drop dead!!!... s**t! I apologize, Mr. Minister. But I'm really pissed off this morning. Between you an' me, I've had enough of all this bull****! You send the application to my house, then you ask me for my f**king address!! What the hell is going on with your mob? Have you got a gang of mindless Neanderthal arseholes workin' there! And another thing, look at my damn picture. Do I look like Bin Laden? I can't even grow a beard for God's sakes. I just want to go to New Zealand and see my new granddaughter. (Yes, my son interbred with a Kiwi girl). And would someone please tell me, why would you give a s**t whether I plan on visiting a farm in the next 15 days? If I ever got the urge to do something weird to a sheep or a horse, believe you me, I'd sure as hell not want to tell anyone! Well, I have to go now, 'cause I have to go to the other end of the city, and get another f**king copy of my birth certificate, and to part with another $80 for the privilege of accessing MY OWN INFORMATION! Would it be so complicated to have all the services in the same spot, to assist in the issuance of a new passport on the same day?? Nooooo.. that'd be too f**king easy and makes far too much sense. You would much prefer to have us running all over the place like chickens with our f**king heads cut off, and then having to find some high society wanker to confirm that it's really me in the goddamn photo! You know the photo..the one where we're not allowed to smile?! ...you f**king morons Signed - An Irate Australian Citizen. P.S Remember what I said above about the picture, and getting someone in high-society to confirm that it's me? Well, my family has been in this country since before 1850! In 1856, one of my forefathers took up arms with Peter Lalor. (You do remember the Eureka Stockade!!) I have also served in both the CMF and regular Army for something over 30 years (I went to Vietnam in 1967), and still have high security clearances. I'm also a personal friend of the president of the RSL.. and Lt General Peter Cosgrove sends me a Christmas card each year. However, your rules require that I have to get someone 'important' to verify who I am; You know.. someone like my doctor; WHO WAS BORN AND RAISED IN f**king PAKISTAN !!!......a country where they either assassinate or hang their ex-Prime Ministers, and are suspended from the Commonwealth for not having the 'right sort of government.' You are all f**king idiots 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Yeah, except here with the different states and their different requirements it's even more fun. Nationwide ID? What's that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I think this guy needs a hug. He does have some points though. I am trying to do the wifes taxes and its hard as I dont have her return from 2007 since I filed it online, but they want a pin number and her AGI that I do not have and will have to send for.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm not sure that I want a government to be all that efficient with my personal data, having it all in one place and logically sorted out; but then again, the banks and credit agencies have me down to a gnat's ass, so what the hell, maybe it is for the better. In some ways, a government that truly has its **** together is a really scary proposition...think "Are your documents in order, citizen?" Some governmental fumbling is, well, reassuring. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm not sure that I want a government to be all that efficient with my personal data, having it all in one place and logically sorted out; but then again, the banks and credit agencies have me down to a gnat's ass, so what the hell, maybe it is for the better. In some ways, a government that truly has its **** together is a really scary proposition...think "Are your documents in order, citizen?" Some governmental fumbling is, well, reassuring. That's a common theme in the U.S., but the truth is that you are just ****ed without the proper papers even though U.S. governments (as in the whole package town to feds) can't get their act together. Or in other words: it's not that they cut you some slack with not having your papers in order just because they screwed it up in the first place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Umm, this was exactly why so many people opposed the National ID card back in the 1980s. It would have been the same sort of person writing a rant back then about why does the government need all this info and how was its security guaranteed? It would be same person screaming their head off if some Pakistani jihadist was able to cobble up a passport based on nothing at all. And yes, there are state and federal problems here. eg. births are registered at state level whilst passports are federal. Also, the signing of the photo is an act of legal witnessing, not just a verification of identity. It needs to be completed by a professional who technically has something to lose by making a false declaration. If the author was so well acquainted with General Cosgrove, he could have asked him to endorse the photo, since ADF officers or senior NCOs are perfectly acceptable witnesses. Minister Downer would have been quite amused to receive the letter, considering his Ministry had nothing at all to do with issuing passports. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 : ) Funny indeed. National ID - yep gets everyone of the hook and as much use as signatures on credit cards in the long run. Bad guys forge it and everyone else losses it or has it stolen and pays a fortune for a duplicate. And how do you make the dossers/street people obey? Lockem-up? Identity theft a problem - just wait for the Govt. to centralise it. Oh yea disaster waiting to happen. I suppose you all saw last week one of the four US departments that was so IT clever that it was going to help other Departments be secure ..... then "lost" 48000 details sufficient for ID theft. You could hardly believe it. Now if 10% of a Department got sacked every time something went missing, or the computer system was breached you might find things improved. I dare say fining commercial companies would sharpen their attitudes but Civil Services do not give a **** 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 What is the problem ? Or rather I know what the problem is but still, what is the problem ? Why do people from countries where ID theft/fake is the easiest complain the most or loudest about these things ? I for one really would like to know who is applying for MY passport. Then again, when applying for a official papers like passport over here the officals do not ask for fathers/mothers name or other such unrelated things. They do ask for the name (kinda obvious that one) social security number and current address in case it has changed between DB updates. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 The U.S. has a nationwide registration anyway. It's the social security number that you need if you want to work or if you want to drive a car. Very few adults fall into neither category. And they have all the info associated with it anyway. It is ludicrous to say that a nationwide ID would make this any worse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Why do people from countries where ID theft/fake is the easiest complain the most or loudest about these things ? Tero on what basis do you make the above statement? Links please. Redwolf - it rather depends if you see the SSN as a convenient admin device or the basis for a national security system [national ID]. In the first instance not a big deal but the second one has amjor problems. I refuse to carry one or register - jail-me. I am an Alzheimer sufferee, I am a dosser, etc. Bad guys will forge them. The average punter looks at a piece of plastic and thinks thats great even when they had to have signatures and pictures peope were cashing for people of the wrong gender and with pictures of gorillas. In the UK it is reckoned 200 "authorities " will have access to the natioanl database. No chance of a ;leak or inappropriate use then! Here is an existing database - if you read the article see the last couple of paragraphs: http://www.e-health-insider.com/news/4090/police_to_get_access_to_national_child_database 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Redwolf - it rather depends if you see the SSN as a convenient admin device or the basis for a national security system [national ID]. In the first instance not a big deal but the second one has amjor problems. But either way, the federal government has the same data. The only data difference between the current SSN and a nationwide ID that they would put a photo into the database. Your photo is on the state driver's license. Unless you don't work and don't drive a car I don't see where you think the difference is supposed to be. I refuse to carry one or register - jail-me. I am an Alzheimer sufferee, I am a dosser, etc. Bad guys will forge them. The average punter looks at a piece of plastic and thinks thats great even when they had to have signatures and pictures peope were cashing for people of the wrong gender and with pictures of gorillas. In the UK it is reckoned 200 "authorities " will have access to the natioanl database. No chance of a ;leak or inappropriate use then! The database at the national level already exists in the U.S. via the social security number. Your worries about who is able to access them are a separate topic altogether. Here is an existing database - if you read the article see the last couple of paragraphs: http://www.e-health-insider.com/news/4090/police_to_get_access_to_national_child_database But this is a different issue. Somebody makes the decision to share data. The data is already collected in the U.S. Of course every major corporation in the U.S. already has more data on you than all government levels combined. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 The U.S. has a nationwide registration anyway. It's the social security number that you need if you want to work or if you want to drive a car. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Nearly everybody asks for your SSN these days, state and federal welfare agencies, medical providers, banks...the list goes on and on. The killer is that when the SSN was introduced, the enabling legislation stated that it was not to be used for any other purpose. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 My concern is more to do with giving the government any more info about me and having it all in one place, smacks of "big brother." In great part, it is an emotionally-based argument, not one based upon a specific concern, more like upon a generalized suspicion. I feel queasy whenever I look at a public data source or credit report about me and see what is already known and available for all to see...but I don't feel quite the same dread about that as I do about the government holding such info. Probably illogical, but that's how feelings are. Factually, I accept that, with the advent of computer databases, networks, the internet, credit reporting systems, etc, etc, everything coming after the creation of the SSN led directly towards an eventual day when government entities will have this info about citizens available, if not in their own databases, then accessible from private or corporate ones. I think what I need to feel better about this is a sort of Digital Bill of Rights to be enacted and enforced upon the government, corporations, private individuals and certainly law-breakers. This would absolutely protect my rights and compensate me monetarily for breaches and abuses. It would have to be a centralized legal document or system and not just a hodge-podge of laws from other arenas. Now to get this idea out to Obama... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Well, other countries such as Germany have very strict "Data Protection" laws, as they call them. The law says which organization is allowed to store what under which circumstances. Not every organization is able to actually fullfil this but it's better than no law like it's the case here, which leads to all top 200 companies in the country knowing everything about you but the government has to go through inter-department and inter-level (state, feds) communications, which basically just waste our tax dollars getting to the same result. The lack of a nationwide ID also helps some criminals and other mischievous characters such as people who want to dodge paying child support. It is absurd that Verzion can locate any person in the country with a single SQL query but there is no government organization that a a mother who a court said she gets xxx dollars can turn to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razz1 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 kool... They can't catch me for that one night stand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 razz1 - that's where karma and vd comes in to play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I feel queasy whenever I look at a public data source... I have a hunch that if we got a peek at what the FBI has in their files about us, we'd all be dookeying in our pants. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1knkTZwcmHE AIG and the polies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I have a hunch that if we got a peek at what the FBI has in their files about us, we'd all be dookeying in our pants. I have a hunch we're really not that interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I have a hunch we're really not that interesting. Which is why they haven't gotten around to hauling you away. Yet. Nevertheless, they could probably lay their hands on you pretty quickly with what they know about you if they ever decided it was worth their while. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Yeah, but they'd still be bored. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 By dieseltaylor Tero on what basis do you make the above statement? The relative ease to establish faked ID in different countries or the citizens of "free democracies" bitching and moaning about having to verify their ID to authorities in multiple ways ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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