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panzermartin

Improving the look of CM Normandy

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Flavor Objects provide the possibility of Cover (depends on what it is and the unit behind it), but no concealment beyond what the base terrain provides.

Yup, we definitely are looking into sacrificing the functionality that CMx2 has over CMx1 for more "atmospheric" types of structures. Good thing is we don't have to jettison the flexible stuff... just *add* less flexible stuff to use for more flavor. It's an unfortunate situation where flexibility and aesthetic qualities are, pretty much, at odds with each other.

I'm pretty sure we'll get artillery illumination. The game is mostly set up to handle it right now. What is needed is the physics of simulating the shell's behavior once it lights up. Wind, height, that sort of thing.

Steve

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I dont want to see blast waves and effects, but I find more realistic the flying dirt with the short violent flash.

I've been beating that drum since CMBO first came out. A lot of people liked and demanded the Hollywoodish "billowing gas" type explosions, but that's not how real high explosives look.

Michael

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Buildings - with regards to buildings there is a lot of flexibility in them currently and they do a decent job of it for the basics - especially how far we've come from CMx1 in that area. However ... [snips] ... This type of building would be necessary to simulate large factories too, such as an automobile plant or something like that.

Okay, as far as doodads go ... [snips] ... equipment etc would be nice.

What is this - SimCity or sumfink?

One thing that I also ran into was a problem when making tall buildings. The problem is that you can't put a door onto a non first floor wall. You just can't do it currenly.

Actually, you can. There are two methods:

1) CTRL + ALT + click forces all floors to have the same door/window configuration.

2) CTRL + SHIFT + click forces a balcony onto a fllor, and balconies always have doors (unless you subsequently use CTRL + ALT + click to force windows onto a balcony). One of the balconies has no walls, just a flat floor which merges in with the floor plates of adjacent buildings.

Yes, I have spent a LOT of time in the editor fiddling about with buildings.

Jon

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What about doodad like objects for smoke and fire? Could be very useful when making maps with buildings and immobilized/destroyed vehicles etc.

Eh? Why not just have the building/veh burning?

Doing it with doodads just seems ... odd.

It's currently possibly to position burning vehs on the map. Buildings in CMSF never burn, so that isn't an option. Yet.

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I knew about the balconies but I didn't want to put balconies on the inside wall of the H. However, I have to admit that I was unsure if the pixeltruppen would actually walk off the balcony into the other building or if they would be restricted to the balcony. The other method I didn't know about, although I had the rule book open and was trying everything I could. I thought the Ctrl Alt click just made the windows and doors "Look" the same (as in style). I'll have to check it out.

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One thing that I also ran into was a problem when making tall buildings. The problem is that you can't put a door onto a non first floor wall. You just can't do it currenly.

I knew about the balconies but I didn't want to put balconies on the inside wall of the H.

:rolleyes:

Absolute statements do have a way of coming back to haunt one, eh? ;)

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:rolleyes:

Absolute statements do have a way of coming back to haunt one, eh? ;)

:) Alright ya got me on that one :). I meant no way without a balcony. Yeah, I just tried the Ctrl Alt click and it did indeed put doors on upper level floors with no balconies so please disregard my obviously hasty comment earlier! It must have been CMx1 pollution seeping into my mind.

As far as Sim City goes - well I would like to be able to make a decent parking lot too. I can use the non striped highway pavement to make somewhat of a parkinglot but it could look a lot better. The dirt lot and the gravel lot just don't cut it when you are trying to make a parking lot for a seven story apartment complex. Also on the doodad wishlist would be stuff like picnic tables and maybe some outside restaurant seating for a cafe or something. Hey, it doesn't hurt to ask eh? All Steve can say is "No" :)

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As far as Sim City goes - ... snips ...

In principle, I agree, but creative use of what exists can go a long way (for example; park benches + packing crates = cafe tables. Not perfect, to be sure, but still very servicable). I've also used both striped highway tiles and striped regular road times to create carparks in different contexts.

Also, having spent a lot of time creating cities, I know how easy it is for the editor to become a blackhole for time, trying to get a 'perfect' look. The SimCity comment was tongue in cheek, but also to point out that this is, at the end of the day, a game about combat. IMO, if it doesn't have an effect on combat (i.e., if it doesn't drive tactical decisions) then its inclusion should be - in general - resisted. A specific painted carpark tile is very, very much in that boat, IMO.

The current inclusion rubbish bins, lampposts, chairs, etc are also, IMO, in that category: they offer no value in terms of tactical decision making. OTOH, they do add to immersion, which without doubt has value from a game perspective.

Regards

Jon

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Eh? Why not just have the building/veh burning?

Doing it with doodads just seems ... odd.

It's currently possibly to position burning vehs on the map. Buildings in CMSF never burn, so that isn't an option. Yet.

With such option you could have any part of the map look like it's been part of an earlier battle. Not just those things that currently can burn. And smoke can be used for many other things as well.

IL2, a popular WW2 flight sim, has light, smoke and fire objects of several colours and sizes that can be freely placed to map. Think about trying to make the map look like as in the Company of Heroes screen shot on page 2 of this thread.

Some examples here:

TrainDerailment_02.jpg

12LWP05.jpg

Those are from a mission building thread where people show their object placement ideas:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/50910533/m/5491082192

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With such option you could have any part of the map look like it's been part of an earlier battle.

Erm ... you can do that in CMSF now.

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Battlefront has no choice but to try to invest some serious time on the graphical department as well. Even the niche wargame market is full of excellent looking games and if you want to survive you have to at least try not to lose a customer from the first seconds of your demo. They did understand it with CMSF despite anachronistic cries from types like Dorosh.

"Normandy" will be the flagship title of the new engine era. The core gameplay is patched up and working fine now and I expect that the biggest load of work will be the new animations and textures this time around. Maybe BFC could open up to the community for some extra help with textures like they did with CMBB scale model competition. Personally I'd be happy to try my hand on a Normandy cottage or two :) Another thing is the multiple skin slots per vehicle, which if included will boost the visuals of the game with most effort coming from modders.

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Speaking of new graphics, how is the new water going? Seemed like a pretty ambitious effort to model it with proper dynamic motion, transparency and reflections. Hope it finally makes it!

Would be awesome if mud or marsh tiles will have some water on them:

normandy.jpg

Also, we can dream about modelling canals running through villages and narrow irrgiation ditches:

palace-canal.jpg

canal_in_bayeux.jpg

wapind3.jpg

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heheh good one :D

Btw that doggy reminded me that I'd love to see BFC "borrowing" the positional ambient sounds ideas from Theatre of War, with dogs barking, water flowing, birds whsitling, instead of a single backrgound wav.

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Special effects... well, there's only so much we can do with that. The Rise of Flight explosions involve a LOT of physics. They do look really cool, but not worth the programming time. Better effects for burning vehicles is something planned, though I don't know when we'll get it in. The screenshot is definitely Hollywoodish in terms of the way the fires are portrayed, but the different types of smoke are nice. And of course the millions of Dollars spent on the artwork definitely is noticeable. One great thing about artwork is that the more money you spend the better the screenshots. Which is why mainstream game companies spend more money on artwork than anything else other than promotion.

Steve

I hope this doesn't count as commercial link, but here's a new game trailer showing those special effects. The game setting is closer to CMSF than WW2, but otherwise I think this fits this thread's topic.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/worldinconflictsovietassault/video/6205399/world-in-conflict-soviet-assault-weapons-trailer?hd=1

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Heh... B-52s about 500m off the ground... yippie :)

Yeah, it's also funny how RTS games these days are promoting the close in details even though nobody will see any of them because the chances of getting in close are about nil.

BTW, linking to stuff that is relevant to a discussion is definitely OK, provided it is not done with the intent of side tracking the thread to discuss that game itself independent of how it relates to one of our products.

Steve

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I think nuclear weapons might be out of the scale of CMSF to be honest :D

Yeah, but since "scale" is the first thing that goes out the window in these type of games....I guess you could say anything goes!

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What we need are decals, especially on vehicles. They're not very graphic intensive but add so much to the experience when surveying the battlefield. Even something like TOW's decal system, only tracking penetrations on vehicles and some ricochet's, would make the CM experience that much more fun. Being able to see the whole in the side of a sherman put there by your Tiger would be an amazing feeling.

Also, we need more robust tracer modelling. Right now they're like pencil thin laser beam's and very long. We need something more realistic, with more volume. VBS 2 does a good job in their modelling of tracers.

(can't find the VBS 2 tech demo, but these will do).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLteD6FBmhY&eurl=http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?p=415783

And about the explosion special effects; why does there need to be physics involved? I'm sure however you calculate the explosions work just fine, but why can't yall add a few more partical emitters and make them look more volumetric? Or adjust the emitters so its a quick, violent explosion followed by a large kickup of smoke and dust?

like...

Also, small arms against vehicles need to be less like little explosions and more like sparks (like the TOW bullet/shell hits).

Also, bring back the sparks from CMBB tank hits. But now apply it across the board. Put it into bombs, small arms against vehicles, tank burn-off, large calibre hits on vehicles (or metal), etc. I loved the sparks in CMBB and I think they would bring just that much more into the game.

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