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Not Another AAR?! Tux Vs Mylgas 2: Double Or Quits


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First of all thanks for yet another professional AAR, they are most entertaining.

Second: Tigers in the fog, soon it will/should be bogged Tigers in the fog, force him to move the beasts and you should get a terrain induced mobility kill!!

Third: get some fire on the tanks and try to KO a commander, use an expendable.

Forth: when playing do you use realistic size for the icons and blow them up for the AAR's?

Finally, good luck and may the computer generated dice roll well for you!

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Yes, another very well presented AAR.

Discussions on tactics can be so tricky before the outcome is known: "splitting forces to feint or flank" looks great when it succeeds, and is just "splitting the forces" if it does not. (Just as "surrounding" an adversary can be renamed "giving the enemy good lines of internal communications" if the action is unsuccessful.)

I will be interested to see if your opponent is tempted to move his Tigers a lot.

The defense, and the likely attack, of the woods his infantry is in, might be the most critical technical exercize in this battle.

Not an easy situation.........but you always seem up to the challange.

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I usually keep all the icons blown up to full size, but keep the camera at a much lower level (2 or 3), at which point it makes little to no difference to nearby units.

I agree that the attack on the flag is now my toughest challenge, especially if I include avoiding slaughter at the hands of two Tigers in that task.

The way I look at it is this: Mylgas has bought two Tigers which represent a significant portion of his overall battle budget. Now, if he is clever (which I fear he might be), he will hold them back, perhaps keyholed against my approach routes, and not bring them forwards until his infantry are under threat. The ball is in my court and he has no need to risk his armour by pushing it forwards yet. On the other hand, he may not be able to bring himself to simply 'waste' those points by not using the cats aggressively. Let's face it, when you have a pair of Tigers in a 1000 pt game you want to cruise across the map and wipe the enemy clean off it, no questions asked. If he tries this I should find more than one opportunity to punish him for it.

The answer, I think, is for me to arrange a well supported flank attack as quickly as possible. If I can hit him before he is completely settled then I might be able to rush him into over-committing his Tigers to exposed positions.

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A very interesting AAR, I like your line of reasoning! :) I tend to agree that without artillery the woods around the VF may be hard to clear but I think it is entirely doable. I think if TaskForce B on the overlooking hill is concentrated to attack the woods, the AT gun repositioned to cover the road coming out of the woods, TaskForce A stays viable long enough to pose a 'threat'... you may get those Tigers as they come up the road. I doubt they would go all the way around and risk bogging so the road would almost be a sure bet, and they will come if you make a concentrated effort with infantry and armour from the hill. I don't think I would worry about a flanking force - I would concentrate now and move "quickly" with TaskForce B. If your opponent does have a flanking force(which I doubt-more likely he may have a reserve force following up - not sure with a 1000 points) it is probably too far out of position to influence the coming battle.

Anyways looking forward to the rest. Thanks.

Ron

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Turn 8 has been played and, to my relief, both Tigers have stopped dead. For now I am safe and I can deal with them in my own time. On the negative side it appears that Mylgas may be content only to use them if necessary and not to risk them unnecessarily.

I have changed little in my orders for Turn 9, except to let TFB's Sherman machine-gun some of the cover that Mylgas' troops have moved into.

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Turn 9 has worried me: Mylgas knows of my flanking attempt and has units of his own directly opposite TFA on the hill. I hope that it consists only of a single LMG 42 scout. The sound contact which mowed down one of my green ATR point crew and broke his companion certainly fitted the bill (i.e. it was an MG 42 for certain, but didn't fire often enough or hit hard enough for the HMG variety).

AU4417.jpg

As you can see in the image above, several of my other units are also within LOS of the area from which the sound came.

From now I must forget about stealth and get this attack going. As I said, I hope that the unit I have encountered was nothing more than an LMG scout, in which case I don't want Mylgas' Main Body (which I assume occupies the flag area) to have lots of time to reposition to face the new threat. I am therefore going to bring my other two Shermans into the fight as soon as possible to play what part they can in disrupting his infantry.

I'm really feeling my lack of infantry in this one - I should have just bought a conscript rifle battalion or something!

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First, I applaud your spirit. Some people, when seeing their opponent pick Tigers go into whining mode. Chin up. [i now wait for you-know-who to declaim how non-interesting big cat battles are.]

Secondly, you have plenty of time. Chip away? Let him make a mistake?

Third: remind me the value of the flag, please. I always like to remember this is not "keep the flag and win". It is quite possible to expend too many points to take a flag.......or the reverse. You have more AFVs,..... so you have more shells? More AFV MG ammo?

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Nah, I enjoy the challenge: The harder they come, the harder they fall!

I stil haven't sent my orders for Turn 10, and I am very conscious that I don't want to be accused of soliciting 'help' from the members who respond to this thread, but I have actually been thinking very hard along similar lines, Rankorian. Off the top of me head I don't know the value of the flag, but I might just be tempted to array my assets against it and try and attrite Mylgas' forces as much as possible over the next 10-15 minutes. If I had a module or two of heavy artillery I'd be laughing, but I don't, so I'll think long and hard before I send my next orders phase.

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Turn 10 has just been sent to Mylgas.

Nothing worthy of a screenshot occurred. The LMG took a potshot at an advancing green squad of mine, thus allowing me to make a fairly reliable estimate of his position. My orders for Turn 11 have kicked off the process of overwhelming and killing him. I hope that, once that is done, I will be free of Mylgas' pestering.

Apart from some indeterminate infantry movement in Mylgas' rear area that was literally all that happened. I am slowly feeling more and more confident about the shape of the 'net' that I am ever-so-gradually tightening around Mylgas' positions.

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Glad you're enjoying them!

Turn 11

The best laid plans of mice and men...

TFA have run into what is probably a weakened platoon on my right flank. Thankfully they haven't hit me too hard yet - I think it's a screening force as much as anything. Indeed, it's my own men who get off the more determined shots as Mylgas' infantry attempt to reposition to nearby cover.

Turn11a.jpg

Also, they are not far enough forwards to prevent my thryst towards Mylgas' main flank. All I need to do is screen against them myself while I continue my preparations. An additional minor annoyance however, is that they do have an 81mm mortar with them, which lands a few choice rounds onto the patch of trees circled below:

Turn11b.jpg

Miraculously, it causes no casualties at all. The blue circle in the above picture is the area in which I have now ordered TFA's supporting Sherman to land some smoke while it is on its way to provide more concrete support. I just want a little cover while my men cross the gaps between houses.

On TFB's flank little is happening, except that Mylgas' first Tiger has shown signs of movement. Near the end of the turn it had turned to face towards the inside of the map before my men lost sight of it in the fog (sorry, the laptop on which I am running the game at the moment won't support the game's fog graphics).

Turn11c.jpg

For now I don't think my Sherman is under threat. It is actually remarkably difficult for either of Mylgas' Tigers to obtain LOS from where they are.

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Turn 12

TFA are stable. The worst news is that Mylgas' mortar has switched targets, and spends the whole minute landing HE rounds on the house circled below:

Turn12a.jpg

He causes two casualties to the Pioneer section inside, who promptly panic but they keep hold of both of their satchels and the nearby Platoon HQ is unharmed, at the same time arriving just in time to stabilise the men's morale status. Unfortunately, another HE round or two is going to collapse that house, and I am unable to get them out safely. Their fates are in the hands of The Gods...

As you can also see, the second Sherman has laid a handy smoke screen across one of the open areas my men must cross to close on Mylgas' flank. In the next turn I am going to get it to lay another few shells in the next gap to the right, in order to cover the movement of my gun-towing MG-carrier, which is just out of shot on its way to its new setup zone.

On the left Mylgas' Tiger reappears and makes swift progress towards TFB's position.

Turn12b.jpg

It is quickly buttoned by my conscript ATR however, and trudges blindly through a very narrow keyhole of LOS to my Sherman which I hadn't noticed earlier. My Sherman acquires and targets the Tiger, but doesn't have time either to fire (and so alert Mylgas to the fact it had gained LOS) or to panic and reverse before the Tiger is back out of sight. Conscript ATRs prove their worth yet again! :)

In my orders for Turn 13 I am going to order my Sherman to lay smoke in the blue circle shown. Otherwise it will not move. I have calculated that the first point at which Mylgas' Tiger will gain LOS to this Sherman along its current path is just as it reaches the paved road. I have subsequently calculated that, should the Tiger get this far without bogging, I will be able to order my central command tank to race forwards for a flank shot along the red arrow shown. I will also be able to close assault it from the nearby trees, with a bit of luck, and so I am rushing a satchel-armed pioneer team and its HQ a bit closer to the area. They should then be able to take advantage of the newly-laid smoke to get up close and personal with the heavy tank in the next turn or two.

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Turn 13

I have just watched Turn 13, and things are hotting up all over the shop.

TFA's task is made a little easier by their Sherman's second smoke screen, seen below. As one platoon advances inexorably towards the trees along Mylgas' flank the other continues to provide covering fire, and one of Mylgas' units is seen turning and running, as marked with a red circle below. Unfortunately, the unit's 'run' looked suspiciously like an 'advance', and so I mustn't discount this unit rejoining the fight relatively soon...

Turn13b.jpg

By the end of the minute, my MG-carrier has also made it to the end of the yellow arrow, and my ZiS-2 has begun to rotate in order to move into position in the blue circle.

TFA's supporting Sherman is a minute or two away from being able to provide direct HE support to the screening troops, and hopefully from being able to uproot and rout them completely.

My orders for Turn 14 will probably centre around making sure my gun is adequately supported in its forward position by continuing to move one platoon up into the appropriate forested area.

TFB are under the cosh a little bit, unfortunately... Mylgas' Tiger is advancing irresistably towards their position, beating the bogging odds and getting closer to coming under attack with every second. :) Annoyingly, by the end of the minute it has stopped just the wrong side of my Sherman's smoke screen. It remains to be seen whether the smoke will be able to provide my units with any cover.

Turn13a.jpg

To be honest, close assault is probably out of the question now. Mylgas' infantry have taken up advanced positions and look to be attempting to uproot TFB for good. The figures you see above are sound contacts only, so my men cannot return fire, yet they amply demonstrate the weight of fire my units have come under, and my conscript ATR is quickly identified and wiped out. infantry units are also advancing out of shot to the left, with the second Tiger providing static support (for now).

For Turn 13 I will see whether I can line up a flank shot against Mylgas' foremost Tiger. If I can, I will have to use another unit to button the Tiger up. My thinking behind this is that I will have an unmissable opportunity to take out a Tiger for no return. In order not to miss it, I cannot afford to give the flanking Sherman a shoot 'n' scoot order, in case it misses it's first (and only) shot. I will therefore have to have it sit still at the end of its movement order and plug away until it kills the heavy tanks. It follows that the Tiger must be buttoned in order to allow my Sherman to do this without the Tiger spotting it and returning fire/ facing up with its frontal armour. I might even give TFB's Sherman a delayed movement order to allow it to take a flank shot at the Tiger if the Tiger does manage to spot and engage my central tank.

As I said though, these are all big 'if's at the moment. I am awaiting the return of the orders phase so that I can check LOS, etc., etc.

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A little brazen moving the first Tiger with the commander unbuttoned, shame the pioneer squad was taking cover. If it had been effective would you have ordered it to attack the Tiger? It's hard to estimate the range from the screenshot (3rd shot turn 11) but it looks as though the Tiger could be in range of a satchel charge, or are the sprites magnified? Hope the big cat bogs, mine always seem to when moving in such damp conditions!

If it is out of range then perhaps split the squad and take a shot at KOing the commander with one half squad. I've given up all computer games for lent and your AAR's are both a source of sustenance and torment!

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If I'd had a reasonable chance of success of course I'd have ordered a close assault. The Tiger isn't yet within range though - I'm afraid the pictures are a bit deceiving. In many of them the units are enlarged. I now know the denisty of troops that Mylgas has very nearby in the trees, and so I don't think I will be able to get my men any closer to it than they already are; he will have to come to them or they won't have a chance.

I only have two squads in TFB and so they are both split to make them look like a full platoon. I have a half-squad with three green riflemen in it which I may use to button the Tiger next turn.

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Here's hoping... ;)

Ok, I've just sent off the orders for Turn 14 and they're terrifying me just to think of them. I'm launching a three-pronged attack on Mylgas' over-confident Tiger. After five seconds my central (HQ) Sherman is racing forwards along the main road to have a crack at the Tiger's flank. (Hopefully) simultaneously a team of engineers are going to assault the tank across open ground and attack it with satchels charges and TFB's Sherman is going to complete a quick Hunt order to gain LOS at a Tiger that will, if all goes according to plan (LOL!), be either a) dead, B) facing my HQ tank and so exposing its flank and rear to the other two, or c) facing (and mowing down) the assaulting engineers and thus exposing its flank and rear to my two tanks.

There are lots of 'if's here, and I can't pretend that I'm confident that I have all of my timings correct. TO make things that little bit more uncertain, Mylgas has attempted to cover his Tiger's inside flank by placing a mortar smoke round near where my HQ tank is intended to stop and fire. I don't think it will block LOS from where it fell, so I'm just hoping he didn't drop any more accurate rounds that have yet to go off...

My two central MMGs, useless thus far, are going to pepper a patch of scattered trees that is within Panzerschreck range of where my HQ tank will be advancing to. I hope to discourage any AT units in this way.

TFA are moving along with their plan, and their supporting Sherman is going to pause to drop some smoke rounds to cover my ATG's setup, because I have now been able to check the gun's LOS, and practically everyone can see it. Damn, lol. The Sherman will continue on its way to support TFA properly after a 10s pause.

Finally, I am fast moving my IS-2 to a position in the centre of my forces, from where I hope to threaten Mylgas' remaining tanks and infantry. I think it's about time I made him play a bit more cautiously.

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this could well be the decisive turn of the game! if your plan succeeds, he will be minus 1 tiger and disheartened to say the least. if it fails... well, i think of the scene in "we were soldiers" when the brave vietnamese soldier charges through american lines, dodging bullets and bombs only to be shot in the head and killed a few feet away from the american command group, just one more distraction among many. good luck tux!

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Not good news I am afraid. Had a bit of a test against a tame Tiger and for August '44 you need to be a lot closer to penetrate with a side hit from either type of Sherman and even then you need several shots to actually kill it.

Perhaps a better plan might be to stay out of the way of his Tigers and use your Shermans and IS-2 to pound his infantry. Keep your own infantry hidden with short covered arcs and use them to ambush his tanks when they come forward to rescue the German infantry. You should have a few RPG at this period and they are real tank killers.

Good luck with your plan - I hope I am wrong!

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RPGs only come with some TH teams.

Extensive tests in March '45 showed that Soviet inf is abysmal at killing tanks. Exceptions are sappers in stationary positions with good cover and low viz or TH teams with RPGs.

A test row of rushing (advance, assault) a vet sapper squad from 45m at 10 o'clock vs a lone buttoned Panther resulted in failure. The Panther survived all 10 tests - the sappers were lucky if they survived.

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