Special forces recruitment standards question

[Sivodsi]

Hi there, I'm trying to track down an article about something I remember reading a couple of years or so ago about the average physical fitness of those applying to Special Forces. I remember them saying that they had to lower the physical requirements for entry and rely more heavily on training them up to the necessary standard. They found that the average level of fitness in the population of applicants had fallen due to more sedentry activities of applicants these days (video games instead of sport etc).

I've searched high and low on the internet, but can't find anything supporting my memory. Can anyone help?

[MeatEtr]

Maybe this article? I didn't read it all so I'm not sure if special forces are included.

[Sivodsi]

Thanks MeatEtr, that helps to a certain extent. Its focus is the regular armed forces though, and not about recruitment into the elite units, which is what I'm looking for.

So, if anybody can find such an article I'd be extremely grateful.

[Secondbrooks]

I served almost 10 years ago and back then average physical condition had dropped some amount during 20 years. Now it has dropped the same amount in less than 10 years! Still from what i've seen our nation is in relatively good condition when it comes to some of the worst western nations. But still physical condition is dropping like cow's tail, it ain't healthy and something should be done.

So i'd say this is more problem to regular forces, who get the fresh rookies and they have to build those into men who can take the pain (or then rookies can't and they drop out). Special forces atleast here have luxury to be picky (enough volunteers in good physical fittness) and as far as i can tell physical requirements are same as they have been earlier. Or like some special force units, they can choose from serving soldiers, who already had got used to physical hardship... Or atleast should have

[ironbar]

The US Navy recently formalized a practice that apparently was old routine. If a promising candidate look like he was going to fail or injure himself, trying to achieve the SEAL’s high standards, they would offer him an opportunity to go to a conditioning platoon for up to three weeks. For the three weeks the candidate would condition with a supervised PT program, after which he would start BUDS over, as opposed to self eliminating from the program, or getting hurt, returning to his home unit and going all the way through the selection process again.

From friends in the SEAL world, that was actually the old time process, only it wasn’t really formalized, the candidate would just be assigned some casual duty at the BUDS school for a few weeks to hone his physical condition.

This doesn’t apply to guys who are lacking in fitness, more like turning semi-pro Tri-athletes into world class Tri-athletes.

I understand the selection process for US Army Special Forces candidates has taken a similar approach, trying to give guys recently returned for OIF/OEF a chance to condition a little bit more, with out eliminating from the selection process

The Ranger battalions used to offer their guys headed to Ranger school, a one or two week period to condition prior to attending.

This is probably out of date but gives a good picture of the SF selection process. http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/sfas/download/p601_25.pdf

Just an interesting read about SOF standards 10 years ago

http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1042/MR1042.chap3.pdf

[Sivodsi]

Thanks for the reply Ironbar. Actually I just found almost what I was looking for here http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15197832/#storyContinued

I would have preferred an article about Special forces, but this will do the job!

[Wildhack]

The one thing I remember is that everyone is given the opportunity to sign up for special forces fairly early in boot camp (at least with regard to the Navy). But after that, I'm sure some serious vetting begins.

I'd be a lot more worried about washing out due to lack of character or low IQ than physical fitness. Almost anyone can get in shape if they really want to.

[Secondbrooks]

The one thing I remember is that everyone is given the opportunity to sign up for special forces fairly early in boot camp (at least with regard to the Navy). But after that, I'm sure some serious vetting begins.

I'd be a lot more worried about washing out due to lack of character or low IQ than physical fitness. Almost anyone can get in shape if they really want to.

One can't train hard if one can't take the physical stress. Train hard with body in poor shape and body starts to break down, that is the problem expacely with current youngsters.

Soon special forces might have trainees or already trained soldiers who's body can't function, they physical fittness doesnt' improve but descends. They are on sick leaves, or body needs months of rest from hard over-stress. Stories i've heard from parajaegertraining are chilling, it indeed needs guys with exellent physical fittness to be able to take that, without problems. And basic-condition (ability to ake long term stress and recover from it) doesn't grow fast.

[John Kettler]

Many SpecOps units, ISTR, simply don't take new recruits. The only way to even be considered is to be a veteran soldier/sailor/Marine with a terrific record and be specially selected for a shot at getting into SpecOps. Check the selection criteria for the unit of interest, but I'm pretty sure you'll find this to be common. I know neither the Green Berets nor the Rangers take new recruits; far from it. This is definitely the case with Delta Force, and I'm pretty sure that's true of the SEALS, Force Recon and the PJs. Nor will you find some wet behind the ears recruit in any of several sniper schools. All want the best of the best, which means excelling in an environment that is 24/7 all about competition and performance no matter what. It is from that pool that the SpecOps people come.

Regards,

John Kettler

[easy-v]

I seem to recalll that you need to be E5 (though I think you can do so while an E4, as long as you are eligible to be promoted to E5) to volunteer for SF in the Army, and you can volunteer for the Rangers in Airborne school (and I don't believe there are any rank restrictions).

In any case, to be in SF, you need to have some tread worn on your boots so to speak AIUI.

As far as Force Recon goes, when I went to Jungle Warfare School in Panama, I recall seeing some Recon Marines (I think they were), among them some E-2 privates with Scuba bubbles.

[Redwolf]

Hi there, I'm trying to track down an article about something I remember reading a couple of years or so ago about the average physical fitness of those applying to Special Forces. I remember them saying that they had to lower the physical requirements for entry and rely more heavily on training them up to the necessary standard. They found that the average level of fitness in the population of applicants had fallen due to more sedentry activities of applicants these days (video games instead of sport etc).

I've searched high and low on the internet, but can't find anything supporting my memory. Can anyone help?

"Special Forces" in the narrow sense, particularly as used in Vietnam, aren't supermen at all. They are just trained to work in environments detached from support and to work with locals to help them. They have to march more and faster, that's the core of the more intensive selection. But they aren't supposed to do Superman stuff.

"Special Forces" in the wider sense of the term are also units like Delta Force, Seal Team 6 and the Rangers, which are actually expected to perform much better in a firefight. You have a very hard selection on those.

Today, all of these, including classical special forces, travel more using vehicles and air transport. But more importantly, today's Special Forces have to use a whole lot of tech gizmos, not to mention maintain and repair them in the field. If you just select those who can march fastests you don't get any geeks, and that can cost you lives in today's environment.

[Wildhack]

As far as current requirements for special forces go, you guys may well be right about needing to have completed one hitch, etc.. What I remember about being asked in boot camp happened, err, well lets just say something over twenty years ago.

But I do remember one other thing about that day. Not a single person stepped forward and said "put my name on the list, sir".

[Affentitten]

The one thing I remember is that everyone is given the opportunity to sign up for special forces fairly early in boot camp (at least with regard to the Navy). But after that, I'm sure some serious vetting begins.

I'd be a lot more worried about washing out due to lack of character or low IQ than physical fitness. Almost anyone can get in shape if they really want to.

I recall an Aussie SAS RSM telling me that the physical side of their entrance course is the easy part. Anybody with good physical fitness can get through it. It’s the mental part that is tough. He recalled for me that it was the “whispering” aspect of the course that he found the hardest. Throughout the physical tests there was a cadre of NCO instructors who would continually be isolating the recruits and having friendly chats with them. “Come on mate, you look like you’re dead. Most people don’t even get as far as you have. You could pull out now and it’s no shame on you at all. I didn’t even make it this far on my first try. You can always come back next year when you’re a bit better prepared. That ankle injury looks like it could get nasty if you keep going. Just say the word and we’ll pull you out. In two hours time you could be having a cold beer and laughing at all the rest of us still stuck out here like idiots…..”

[Sivodsi]

. “Come on mate, you look like you’re dead. Most people don’t even get as far as you have. You could pull out now and it’s no shame on you at all. I didn’t even make it this far on my first try. You can always come back next year when you’re a bit better prepared. That ankle injury looks like it could get nasty if you keep going. Just say the word and we’ll pull you out. In two hours time you could be having a cold beer and laughing at all the rest of us still stuck out here like idiots…..”

Oh man, that's vicious!

[Subvet]

Many SpecOps units, ISTR, simply don't take new recruits. The only way to even be considered is to be a veteran soldier/sailor/Marine with a terrific record and be specially selected for a shot at getting into SpecOps. Check the selection criteria for the unit of interest, but I'm pretty sure you'll find this to be common. I know neither the Green Berets nor the Rangers take new recruits; far from it. This is definitely the case with Delta Force, and I'm pretty sure that's true of the SEALS, Force Recon and the PJs.

I don't know how the other branches handle it, but that is definitely not the case for Navy SEALS. Back when I joined (late 80's) you could volunteer in bootcamp. Now-a-days you can apply to be a SEAL before you even go to bootcamp!

[Dogface]

IIRC it is the same now with the Army Special Forces, you can enlist as a SF candidate now. I know of one person that did just that. I think it went something like bootcamp, AIT, jump school, some sort of pre SF course (like the PRC) then on to Bragg for SF school.

[MeatEtr]

I don't know how the other branches handle it, but that is definitely not the case for Navy SEALS. Back when I joined (late 80's) you could volunteer in bootcamp. Now-a-days you can apply to be a SEAL before you even go to bootcamp!

Hey Subvet, this ones for you!

[Subvet]

LOL! Nice!

[RSColonel_131st]

"Special Forces" in the narrow sense, particularly as used in Vietnam, aren't supermen at all. They are just trained to work in environments detached from support and to work with locals to help them. They have to march more and faster, that's the core of the more intensive selection. But they aren't supposed to do Superman stuff.

"Special Forces" in the wider sense of the term are also units like Delta Force, Seal Team 6 and the Rangers, which are actually expected to perform much better in a firefight. You have a very hard selection on those.

First, while they aren't "supermen", they are specifically selected to never quit, do incredible amounts of teamwork and be creative in any situation. Your first sentence is a bit short on those.

Second, Delta, Seals, Army Spec Ops, Force Recon and USAF Battlefield Airmen ARE what you commonly call "Spec Ops". There is no "wider definition" of the term, even including Rangers and 10th Mountain can sometimes be a stretch. But they aren't necessarily just expected to be better in a direct firefight. They also recive an insane amount of training on unconventional warfare, language skills, climate preparations, and cultural awareness.

I've met a few of those guys (in fact one ex SOF Operator is sitting here at my company two doors down the hallway, and I spent two days at Hurlburt Field, FL this summer), and it's not their physical strength - it's their willpower, readiness to constantly learn and excel at everthing they do which makes them SOF material.