Auto generated maps?

[umlaut]

Hi

I´ve got a question about the maps in CMC that I haven´t been able to find an answer to in the other threads. Please excuse me, if I´ve overlooked the answer.

The thing is this: As far as I have understood you can - whenever there´s a battle in CMC - choose to either let CMC autoresolve the battle or play it out as a CMBB battle. I hope that´s correct.

Now my question is, whether the battles you play out in CMBB are on maps that has been designed by humans - or if the maps are made by the QB map generator in CMBB (I am of course speaking of the campaigns that are coming wiht the game, not any computer generated campaigns)?

I ask this question because I fear having to play on the maps that are auto generated by CMBB . I think that especially the town/villages look awful. The computer simply isn´t capable of making any realisticly looking town - in my opinion.

Anyway, I´m really looking forward to the release of CMC (My wife wouldn´t be, if she knew about it. But she won´t).

Cheers

[Ardem]

If I remember rightly all the maps need to be made by humans and brought into the game prior to playing the campaign.

I suppose you could have for some people a auto generated map by doing all the mapfirst then dropping them in, but the flag and various other components must be made into the campaign before you run it.

[tankibanki]

As far as I understood it the maps for the CMBB battles will be a set of human made tiles instead of generated maps like the ones in QBs right now. My guess is that the campaign designer or a campaign generator could just put together the strategic map from those predefined tiles. I could be mistaken, though.

[MeatEtr]

Hmm, I had a different understanding, since the battlefields are gigantic it would be practically impossible for the maps to be made manually. I mean, there's no way to predict where battles will be fought since it's all up to the persons decisions. So therefore the maps would have to be auto-generated. Of course I'm sure it will be possible to have areas where the maps could be handmade.

Or am I wrong about this, heck its been so long I forget. Anyway we can get an official word on this?

[Hunter]

All the maps must be made by hand (the hand of the scenario designer).

It is a lot of work, and there is a tendency to re-use strategic maps for different campaigns because of it.

[MeatEtr]

All the maps must be made by hand (the hand of the scenario designer).

It is a lot of work, and there is a tendency to re-use strategic maps for different campaigns because of it.

Great to hear from you again Hunter. So if I understand you correctly, take a 50 tile strategic map from within CMC and the scenario designer will have to construct 50 maps for use within CMBB. I assumed, especially for larger maps with say 80+ tiles, CMC would use CMBBs QB auto-generator for the maps.

[dieseltaylor]

In some ways I am wary of a multitude of specially designed maps as I think there are two risks:

1. Individually the maps are beautiful works of art but do not relate to the adjacent tiles very well. If they are 2km square getting the roads correct is mandatory and obvious however the general terrain may be bizarrely different.

2. The maps become mix and match generic in that roads will always be half way or two thirds on a side. That the scenery also becomes generic to meet a "standard".

My hope is that within the CMBB engine that the generated maps are used but are only tweaked lightly [for roads and villages] so that we do not have "fair" maps. Fair maps are the designers view of what gives equal chances to both sides and surely in CMC we are looking to maximise disadvantages prior to the battle. Having "fair" maps argues that the designer knows what the forces there will consist off - which cannot be known ahead of the campaign. And even then weather and year of battle can change the terrain effects.

Ultimately for Russia we know that good maps were not in the hands of the forces fighting there so a few high level shots of all the map squares could be provided to each side. And deriving from the master map the general areas of terrain could be substantially generated and tweaked swiftly for the roads etc. Sending scouting forces to get detailed maps would be an interesting addition to the game flavour and provide plenty of reasons for light actions. : )

[Wrath of Dagon]

Great to hear from you again Hunter. So if I understand you correctly, take a 50 tile strategic map from within CMC and the scenario designer will have to construct 50 maps for use within CMBB. I assumed, especially for larger maps with say 80+ tiles, CMC would use CMBBs QB auto-generator for the maps.

The CMBB maps have to match the strategic map, or else what's the point? I don't see how that can be done with auto-generator.

[dieseltaylor]

I assume the strategic map only shows light detail- towns roads, generally woody, barren hilly, mountainous and therefore fine detail does not exist. I have run two 2km auto-generated maps and put on the relevant roads and a village. Fairly trivial in terms of time and effort in my samples but 15 minutes I think would cover a map for adding bits and checking for geographic feasibility.

I am quite keen on maps and have French and English detailed maps so perhaps I am lucky in my eyeballing for logic and patterns. Russia is obviously not as easy but there are very detailed maps available on the web - I have had one or two to examine. However replication is not required just the right sort of flavour for terrain of that type.

I know Renaud does beautiful Russian maps and I imagine there are others familiar with the terrain and general population density and housing patterns etc.

[MeatEtr]

The CMBB maps have to match the strategic map, or else what's the point? I don't see how that can be done with auto-generator.

I figured the tile would be somewhat vague in terrain features like woods, city, open ground, etc. So changing the auto-generator settings would suffice, such as the map type, tree coverage, and hilliness. Don't get me wrong though, I'm glad it will all be handmade. As already mentioned the auto generator could still be used to speed up the building of larger campaigns. Although the designer would/should still make minor changes to the map, roadworks, flag placement, etc.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Looking at the maps here: http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/image/2008/games/combatmissioncampaign/stug-supply-screenshot.jpg and here: http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/combat-mission-campaigns-aar-prokhorovka.pdf the campaign map seems pretty specific where the towns and the forests are on the tile, as well as roads, rivers and other features. I would think it would also be important to get the elevations right, you don't want to think you're defending a hill and wind up in a valley.

[Sgt AA]

You can always use Mapping Mission and create a huge map in it. Then "cut" it into 2x2 squares.

I'm not there yet, but with knowledge in e g PhotoShop, you can manipulate real maps and have the program to transfer them into CMBBs editor.

[dieseltaylor]

Thanks for the links Wrath. I think they provide enough information to carry out the quick method I advocate - but then I have no published maps and am not a beta-tester so what do I know : )

The elevation information is very interesting and perhaps spot heights or some other clue is required as to what two levels equates to. Nice to consider how far 88's might snipe at : )