Assaulting a building fierce and agille.

[eniced73]

I played through the first two core campaign missions and had very low casualties or wounded. I know that this is a result of me pounding the piss out any building in my way that I suspect is housing the enemy. I read through this thread and noticed some 'gamey' talk on using the target order when assaulting floor by floor. Well what about using it as I described above?

Can someone with knowledge about US ROE shed some light on exactly how forces would go about attacking an enemy position? It just does not seem right unleashing all my firepower on "suspected" enemy buildings before I approach them. To be more true to real life would I only fire upon buildings that have confirmed enemy contacts?

CNN already does a good job at bashing our country on the wars. If they reported what I did in the first two missions - holy @#$#!

I did find these two links in case anyone is interested:

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/US_Rules_of_Engagement_for_Iraq

http://88.80.16.63/leak/us-iraq-rules-of-engagement.pdf

[George MC]

In 'House to House' by David Bellavia (describing his experiences in Fallujah) he talks about his Bradleys 'prepping' houses with their cannons before they (the dismounts) went into clear them. Guess Fallujah was a war fighting operation so in that context targeting houses is OK - issue comes if you are fighting in areas where there are civilians in which case you might have ROE operating?

[Drescher]

First, AFAIU the ROE you posted where from after the "real" war was over. CMSF assumes in its backstory that there is a full scale conventional war going on and as such there is really no need to limit yourself. Its a game after all

I see it this way, if there are special RoE, i read them in the briefing and then, yes, try to follow them. Whenever this is not the case, im free to use as much force as possible.

Try the first or even better the second mission without everyone and his brother supressing the hell out of enemy occupied buildings will leave you with many casualties, unneccessary casualties i might add, because if you had gone the way of massive firepower those poor boys could be living a happy life in the Sims or sth.

The game also doesnt model possible surrendering of whole enemy units at first sign of contact with enemy soldiers or cameramen, they stand and fight, and usual til the last man and round, so this is not only one way to fight but in the context of the game i find its the one and only way to fight within acceptable casuality limits.

[Lethaface]

Battle for Pooh will result in a mass slaughter of your forces if you dont prepare the plenty buildings on the map for your gallant entry

[Deriuse]

Its realistic that the vehicles carry the infantry right to the the door? or they will dismount and advance behind the vehicle?

[Jonny(FGM)]

Its realistic that the vehicles carry the infantry right to the the door? or they will dismount and advance behind the vehicle?

I think the answer is it depends.

if you're facing an enemy with RPGs and ATGMs falling out of every orifice then obviously you dismount at the earliest opportunity and advance cautiously with an infantry screen.

Whereas if the biggest threat you face is a AK-47 then well you stay in your APC/IFVs for as long as possible

[MeatEtr]

But if you do take a chance and haul ass to the door, don't forget to pop smoke before rushing the building. This not only hides your advance from the target building but also from surrounding potential threats. Of course covering fire always helps too.

[Deriuse]

So pretty much these? infantry and apcs advance in hunt first so when they see a contact they get cover and fire while the mg and command teams are in overwatch at range when all threats have been eliminated/pinned down infantry will assault to the houses while the apcs fire to suspected targets and mgs/command teams are in overwatch for possible new threats will this be more in line with actual tacts?

[Chainsaw]

pretty much yes. but I tend to keep the platoon HQ with the squads, the Command chain is much more needed there then with the MG squad. and keep your APCs back so RPGs cant get them. I try to keep atleast 100m between the squad and the APC.

Edit: if you assault with one platoon you should have one platoon in overwatch for best effect.

[Muddy boots]

Thanks for giving me some ideas Chainsaw. The lack of a 'room-clearing' movement style in the game is one of the few gripes I can find, they come close with the blast option for engineers, so its a shame they cant have a 'storm' option for room-to-room work.

On the matter of friendly fire, well I have only played CMSF British so far so maybe it is an upgrade, but I did suffer freindly fire casualties when a rifle grenade overshot the roof it was aimed at and landed squarely in the pants of some poor squaddie, who was left firmly on the dead side of existence as a result. When attacking buildings, covering fire had the effect of causing the assaulting section to get their heads down and hug the floor once they had entered the building.

Any suggestions on room-to-room clearance within a large building, where suppressing fire from outside is not possible? I'm asking this because on the last level of Brit forces there was a rather large 5-6 floor building which had to be cleared. First time I did it, well I thought I had cleared it and went on to take the other objectives..over an hour later I ended the game and it turned out to be a draw, because there was a single squad of sniggering Syrian infantry hiding away in one of the multitude of rooms. Bugger. So next time I razed three-quarters of the building with arty, and used 3 platoons of infantry to fight through. The same problem arose though, whichever movement method I used for entering a room, be it assault, hunt or simply rush in the whole squad, I would take awful casualties.

In a way, I suppose it shows the game does accurately reflect the nasty nature of FIBUA, but not in a way that it means to. A simple 'storm' option alongside 'blast' and all the others would be wery wery nice

[Chainsaw]

hi Muddy boots! yes indeed. 40mm grenades from the UGLs does cause own casualtys. this wasnt the case when I wrote this "tutorial", it came with a later patch. So when assault use "target light" wich hopefully will stop the soldiers from using LASM/UGLs.

when moving from room to room you can still area target the next room as long as there is windows between the rooms. if not your best bet is to smoke the room before moving into it and hopping yours troops gets the upper hand in the smoky fight that will ensue.

I find british forces overall to suck in QCB, I try to avoid FIBUA as much as possible with british troops, so that you (as well) is getting heavy casualtys doesnt suprise me.

/Thomas

[meade95]

The lack of a 'room-clearing' movement style in the game is one of the few gripes I can find, they come close with the blast option for engineers, so its a shame they cant have a 'storm' option for room-to-room work.

On . A simple 'storm' option alongside 'blast' and all the others would be wery wery nice

+1 - This is where CMSF becomes quite frustrating for me - The CCQ - A room clearing style movement would be great -

[Revenant]

Hello.

I play this game from time to time, played some standalone battles and quick battles and now I am trying campaign. (I have only the basic version, patched to the latest version).

I read this article about storming the building, but my men are still dying doing so.

I park Strikers at the front, pepper the structure with their 0.5 and use assault order combined with "Target" order. But still, some of my soldiers are killed/wounded during entry.

I am struggling with the second mission now.

Any advice on this matter?

Thanks.

[Revenant]

And another issue - RPGs. I do it nicely, Strikers moving, guns blazing, and suddenly a lone RPG fires from a house and destroy my IFV. And that house is under suppressive fire from all directions, I have to say.

[Drescher]

Probably not long enough though

Seriously, prepare the assault by simply leveling the entire block, then put some 155 on airburst on the ruins, spray with .50 and grenades then move in to do the body count. For some tactical finesse you could seperate the building complex with a nice smoke screen.

There is not much more you can do, from time to time some of those OPFORs go berserk and fire (and hit) their at-weapons, it sucks but thats war i guess.

[Chainsaw]

RPGs... Well you can never really get away from them as they are around in just about every squad, just like M136s. Much is up to your own judgement. If you think there is plenty of RPG against you it's a good idea to dismount 300m out or so and let the infantry assault on foot with the strykers staying 300m back giving supportive fire. When your infantry have moved forward cleaning stuff up you can move the strykers forward.

You need to remember that Strykers and Bradleys arent tanks, they are infantry hauler and needs to be protected against ATGMs and RPGs.

So you can't just charge up against a building like in my first post unless you have created a situation that allows it. Which means local fire superiority and controlling surrounding area.

Regarding suppression; it's a good idea to let the suppressive fire work for at least 1-2 minutes before moving in so the enemy really gets suppressed and not just fired on. The enemy morale affects this allot to!

Casualtys: you are pretty much guaranted to get them when fighting in buildings, cant avoid them really...

[Chainsaw]

Regarding the 2nd Mission in the campaign:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=81993&highlight=Airfield

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=93870&highlight=Airfield

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=81904&highlight=Airfield

[Erwin]

"I park Strikers at the front, pepper the structure with their 0.5 and use assault order combined with "Target" order. But still, some of my soldiers are killed/wounded during entry."

You know that using TARGET anywhere near friendly troops can cause significant friendly fire casualties? (Just in case that is what is happening.)

[Revenant]

I am not sure, but I think its dangerous only with grenade launchers and more powerful guns?

[stikkypixie]

"I park Strikers at the front, pepper the structure with their 0.5 and use assault order combined with "Target" order. But still, some of my soldiers are killed/wounded during entry."

You know that using TARGET anywhere near friendly troops can cause significant friendly fire casualties? (Just in case that is what is happening.)

.50 cal causes casualties, everything smaller will suppress your forces.

[Mastiff]

umm; the friendly fire is on, as far as I have been playing this.

Gamey? well it is a game not realism. lol you guys crack me up, you want real? go to Iraq or Afghan.

I'm pissed off the damn sniper don't do what there supposed to do, in veteran mode.

[Revenant]

.50 cal causes casualties, everything smaller will suppress your forces.

So the tactic mentioned at the beginning of this thread does not work now?

How to do it now?

Prepare the building with suppression fire, then stop the shooting and enter using "assault" command?

And Inside, during floor clearing, move just using "assault", do not use it with fire command?

[stikkypixie]

So the tactic mentioned at the beginning of this thread does not work now?

How to do it now?

Prepare the building with suppression fire, then stop the shooting and enter using "assault" command?

And Inside, during floor clearing, move just using "assault", do not use it with fire command?

It does work, but you need to stop shooting .50 and explosives before you enter a building, otherwise you will hurt your soldiers. The small arms fire will not harm your forces but will add to their suppression. If you can manage to time everything so that they stop shooting just before your forces enter the building it is better.

The key thing is before moving into a known enemy location is to put down enough suppressive fire for a long enough time. If you are not sure, shoot some more. And you will have to accept that you will take casualties. There is no "formula" to avoid all casualties in urban fighting in my experience.

[Chainsaw]

So the tactic mentioned at the beginning of this thread does not work now?

Much has happened in the patches since I wrote that tutorial. In the begining you could fire 40mm indoors without own casualtys

But, like stikkypixie says, Build up the eny suppression with 40mm and 0.50cal. when they are suppressed switch over so a rifle squad fires TARGET LIGHT (to avoid firing 40mm) on the building. that should keep the enemy pinned while your other squads enter the building.

[Erwin]

Like he said, you should switch to TARGET LIGHT whenever friendlies are within (say) 20m of the target. However, note that friendly casualties can even be caused if they are anywhere along the flight path of a TARGET line.

The assaulting squad which is actually entering the building can TARGET the building as they enter, and I AFAIK they do not suffer from friendly fire from their own weapons(?) Certainly engineers can BLAST right next to friendlies with no ill-effects. (So much for those who ramble on about "realism". This is a game after all.)

But, you probably should give the assaulting squad a 360 arc at the waypoint inside the building so they start searching for enemy all around them and above.

So the sequence of assaulting a building is roughly like this (adapt as needed):

1) TARGET the building with as many units & vehicles as you can - ideally for 2+ minutes. (And ideally destroy the building unless it's a "protect building" situation.)

2) Switch to TARGET LIGHT with all units except the assaulting squad which can continue to TARGET.

3) Once inside the building, unless there are obvious targets to kill immediately, set the waypoint to give a 360 arc, so your assaulting squad can search for hiding enemies and engage at their own discretion.

Note that generally I find that one should not assault with more than one squad as that creates a target rich environment for enemy grenades etc.

Hope that helps...