What's the Point w/o Vista?

[acrashb]

t's such a small community of people who are even running Vista atm.

You need to speak in terms of facts. Microsoft has moved 180 Million vista licences. Research shows about 65% are retained (the rest downgraded to XP or cross-graded to another OS, e.g. Ubuntu). So that's 117 Million Vista users. I am hard-pressed to agree with your characterization of a "small community".

Let's be clear: I don't like Vista. But it's what I and 117 Million other people use. So building a game that won't run on it (yes, in combination with NVidia, the most popular graphics option) is leaving a lot of money on the table.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

NVidia broke DX5 comptibility in the DX10 drivers (ATI probably, too, but who cares?).

The DX10 drivers are only used when you have both of (a) Vista and ( a DX10 card such as Gefore 8xxx or 9xxx card.

Otherwise you have DX9 drivers and they work for CMx1.

The Vista "Game Center" (or whatever it's called) let's users select either DX9 or DX10 mode.

Yeah, Vista is pretty heavy in the suckage department, but it's all that's available to a lot of folks, particularly those with laptops.

Folks with desktops, new or old, can still buy an OEM copy from here:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=368&name=Operating-Systems

Forgive me if these points have already been made note of in the thread.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[Redwolf]

The Vista "Game Center" (or whatever it's called) let's users select either DX9 or DX10 mode.

That doesn't matter since some DX5 API calls are broken in either, and that kills CMx1.

You don't actually switch back to the DX9 drivers that had working DX5 compatibility, just just turn off some new DX10 stuff.

[phil stanbridge]

Guys just to point out, the latest Catalyst drivers (for ATI cards) have resolved some of the issues within Vista! I can now play CMBB without any slowdown at all. Hell even the fog effects are working! The only problem is the ancient "white text box" - but there is a temporary fix at least for that. So it's not all doom and gloom on the ATI front at least.

[Abbott]

Guys just to point out, the latest Catalyst drivers (for ATI cards) have resolved some of the issues within Vista! I can now play CMBB without any slowdown at all. Hell even the fog effects are working! The only problem is the ancient "white text box" - but there is a temporary fix at least for that. So it's not all doom and gloom on the ATI front at least.

Good info Phil, thanks.

[Gumboots]

Guys just to point out, the latest Catalyst drivers (for ATI cards) have resolved some of the issues within Vista! I can now play CMBB without any slowdown at all. Hell even the fog effects are working! The only problem is the ancient "white text box" - but there is a temporary fix at least for that. So it's not all doom and gloom on the ATI front at least.

I'm running Vista 64 with an ATI 3870x2 using the latest Catalyst drivers (8.8). Still doesn't work - black screen with occasional wavy white lines when it starts the battle.

What settings are you using please?

[Der Alte Fritz]

Hi

Try this:

These are my settings. Bear in mind that I have very little clue as to what they are and it may be possible to optimise further, especially on the speed issue.

Anisotrpic filtering: 16x

Antialiasing gamma : on

" mode: override

" setting: 16xQ

" transparency: supersampling

Conformant texture clamp : use open GL spec

Error reporting: on

Force minimaps: billinear

Multi display: compatabilty perf. mode

Stereo: use onboard DIN

Texture filtering Anisotropic : on

" " Negative Loss bias: allow

" " Quality: performance

" " trillinear: on

Threaded option: on

Triple Buffer: on

Verical Sync: force off

By the way, if you set AA and AF to 2x you should notice huge improvements in framerates and still have some visual delights.

cheers

[Eric.B.Hall]

Hi. I have had the issue that I could not run Combat Mission (BB or AK) when I got a new system with the Vista operating system. My investigation turned up the fact that my NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT was the problem. So I started looking for new drivers, but found none. However, in late July 2008, NVIDIA came out with a new driver which may (or may not) fix the problem for the 8600 GT. But I don't know that it works because I have the 8600M GT. The "M" version is a special version for laptops like my Dell. NVIDIA tells me that I have to wait for Dell to issue an updated driver because of its status as an "M" version. I hope they do it soon so I can give it a try.

[Boris Balaban]

I am running my CMBB on my Windows Vista computer.

[Gumboots]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Still doesn't work for me so I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed a future driver release will resolve my problems.

[Redwolf]

Hi. I have had the issue that I could not run Combat Mission (BB or AK) when I got a new system with the Vista operating system. My investigation turned up the fact that my NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT was the problem. So I started looking for new drivers, but found none. However, in late July 2008, NVIDIA came out with a new driver which may (or may not) fix the problem for the 8600 GT. But I don't know that it works because I have the 8600M GT. The "M" version is a special version for laptops like my Dell. NVIDIA tells me that I have to wait for Dell to issue an updated driver because of its status as an "M" version. I hope they do it soon so I can give it a try.

That's BS. Google it and you can use the regular drivers on your Dell.

Good luck waiting, otherwise.

Boris, the problem isn't Vista, the problem is the combination of Vista with a NVidia 8xxx card.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Just to clarify Redwolf's point (which is, frankly, pretty clear, but I am not taking any chances), if you get a new comp with Vista and have, say, a 9600 card, or something other than the 8xxx card, you will be able to play BB and AK?

Thanks in advance.

[c3k]

Redwolf would know this better than I would, but I _think_ this problem has been solidly identified as a DX10 issue. If you use DX9 (or earlier) CMBB/AK/BO should work.

How do you have DX10?

First, you need Vista, then you need a DX10 GPU. So, WindowsXP with ANY video card is fine.

Vista with SOME cards is fine (mostly OLD cards).

Vista with NEW cards is broken.

Nvidia video cards began supporting DX10 with the 8xxx series. So, Vista with 8xxx, 9xxx, or the newer GTX260 and GTX280 will have problems.

All this is IMHO.

I have Vista64, 8800GTX. No CMBB for me.

Regards,

Ken

[Wrath of Dagon]

Just to clarify Redwolf's point (which is, frankly, pretty clear, but I am not taking any chances), if you get a new comp with Vista and have, say, a 9600 card, or something other than the 8xxx card, you will be able to play BB and AK?

Thanks in advance.

Some people can apparently play it with ATI DX10 cards and Vista but others are still having problems.

[Redwolf]

It's NVidia's DX10 drivers which screw up a couple of DX5 calls, and CMx1 uses DX5. So yes, you need Vista and a DX10 card to successfully fail to run the game.

I don't know the status of the ATI stuff.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Appreciate it.

[HARI SELDON]

Is there a forum to pester nvidia to fix this problem?

[Sgt Fury]

So I shot myself in the foot by buying CMBB. Which Battlefront games do I avoid if I'm carrying the Vista and DX10 albatross around my neck?

[Grisha]

This is my system:

Alienware Area-51® m5550

Video/Graphics Card: 256MB NVidia® GeForce™ Go 7600

Display: 15.4" WideUXGA 1920 x 1200 LCD - Saucer Silver

Processor: Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7200 2.0GHz 4MB Cache 667MHz FSB

Memory: 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SO-DIMM at 667MHz - 2 x 1024MB

Motherboard: Alienware® Intel® 945PM + ICH7 Chipset

Operating System (Office software not included): Genuine Windows Vista™ Ultimate - Without Remote Control or TV Tuner

System Drive: 100GB Serial ATA 1.5Gb/s 7,200 RPM w/ NCQ & 8MB Cache

Primary CD ROM/DVD ROM: 24x DVD-ROM/CD-RW Burner

Sound Card: Intel® 7.1 High-Definition Audio

Wireless Network Card: Internal Intel® PRO Wireless 3945 a/b/g Mini-Card

Communications: Integrated 10/1000Mb Gigabit Ethernet & 56K V.92 Modem

I have DX10 on my system as well. I also run and play CMBB with no trouble. Is the problem being mentioned here to do with CMC per se or CMBB?

[NefariousKoel]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Still doesn't work for me so I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed a future driver release will resolve my problems.

Supposedly the next big iteration of Nvidia drivers provides better OpenGL support. Which may or may not alleviate this issue.

I can say one thing: Having a widescreen monitor and using the latest "official" Nvidia beta has allowed me to keep the resolution scaling the same as the game settings which is something I haven't seen in years. No more 3D stretch, woot! I hope they stick with it.

[c3k]

Grisha,

Man, I'm going to get myself in trouble. I'm no computer guru, so take this as coming from an amateur: You are NOT using DX10 on your system. Your card is only DX9 capable, therefore you're not in the problem group. (I know there's going to be a highly technical rebuttal. Sorry, I already know that's not totally accurate.)

To recap: to be in the known problem group you need a DX10 operating system AND a DX10 capable video card. Mostly the Nvidia DX10 cards are at fault. There seem to be some reports of ATI cards (DX10 capable?) which play CMBB.

With a DX10 OS and a DC10 card, if you try to use DX9 (which vista allows) you're really NOT using DX9. The problem thanks to previous posters, is that older versions of DX are NOT supported well by DX10. When you, like Grisha, have a DX9 capable card on a DX10 OS, the DX10 defaults to DX9. DX9 includes support for DX5 which seems to be what CMBB needs to run.

With a DX10 card and a DX10 OS, specifying DX9 in vista games' drop down menu only EMULATES DX9, hence no support for the earlier DX5 which was included in the ACTUAL DX9.

I think I've gotten that straight.

Regards,

Ken

[Redwolf]

Is there a forum to pester nvidia to fix this problem?

nvnews.com is a semi-official one where NVidia driver developers hang out and post. At least the Linux/FreeBSD ones, but it's definitely the closest you get to the WIndoze devevelopers, too.

[HARI SELDON]

Has anyone from Battlefront contacted nvidia asking for a vista / dx10 fix? I'm sure they carry more weight and could technically explain the issues better than users.

Come on Battlefront, if you're not fixing it, help in getting nvidia to fix it.

[Der Alte Fritz]

Well we need to get this fixed as I suspect that what people who are waiting for the WW2 version of CMSF have no yet realised is that the number of vehicles supported by the game are going to be quite small. So you are not going to get CMBB with extra graphics. What you are going to get is CMSF with a handful of WW2 vehicles. So first choice will be Normandy and then maybe a Kursk pack. But you will not get June 1941 to May 1945 with almost every vehicles as you do in CMBB.

[Mad Russian]

I don't play shooters and scooters so I don't really care about the glitz and glamor of a faster card. Long as my wargames will play and those from Battlefront, Matrixgames, Paradox and HPS/Sharapnal do I don't really care what the rest of the world does. So, if you bought or upgraded to Vista you've just joined the rest of the fools in the world that follow the pied piper of technology. lol

Well, some of us are at the end of those long computer life spans now trying to figure out the best way to proceed from here.

Nice that you're not. Sooner, or later, you will be one of those fools when your computer dies or won't turn on any more.

Good Hunting.

MR