bruce90 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 It seems to me that in the selection of names for military hardware Americans leave a lot to be desired. Now we Brits are alleged to be the cold, dour, unemotional, stiff upper lip and downright dull people but damn it, at least if we intend to kill anyone with a machine we pay the victims the complement of giving it a 'proper' name. Think about it. Scimitars, Challengers, Sacerens the list is endless and all names that give off the 'clang' of history. But. I was watching Mark Ezra's excellent videos yesterday and this was the lead in to one. ' You have a LAV ATGM Section, a LAV 25 A2 Scout Platoon and your HQ LAV C2A2 with the XO's LAC 25 A2 in support.' This isn't even a recent phenonemon. In days past the Brits had Spitfires, Hurricanes and Lancasters. What did the Yanks have? P47s, P51s and B17s. Please!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Even the nicknames of the US planes were often taken from how the British named their Lend Lease stuff. For shame! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 In days past the Brits had Spitfires, Hurricanes and Lancasters. What did the Yanks have? P47s, P51s and B17s. Yes, because the British planes didn't have numerical designators and the American ones didn't have more common names. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Yeah, I think you guys have us cold on that one. Ship names is probably the biggest mismatch. In the U.S. military, it falls to the actual troops to give the names we really use. Aircraft get great "working nicknames" (I've always been partial to "Jug" for the P-47) and what the sailors call their ships is usually more amusing than their official name. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 British aircraft and ground equipment do have numerical designations, but they are rarely used. P1127 = Harrier Type 300 = Spitfire FV4034 = ??? Nowadays the infantry is probably the worst offenders for alphanumeric soup, with AGLs, GMGs, L85s, L115s and LASM. Somewhat ironically, the key named system is the American FGM-148, or Javelin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce90 Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 Sacerens??? Bloody hell. SARECENS!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Yeah, I think you guys have us cold on that one. Ship names is probably the biggest mismatch. In the U.S. military, it falls to the actual troops to give the names we really use. Aircraft get great "working nicknames" (I've always been partial to "Jug" for the P-47) and what the sailors call their ships is usually more amusing than their official name. US working nicknames are generally quite good and make up for a lot. I particularly like "Bone" (B-1b) though the old "Buff" (B-52) is not bad either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Ross Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 'Just the sort of bloody silly name that they would give it' - Reggie Mitchell's response when he heard what Vickers had decided to name his aircraft. Personal favourite: 'Warspite' One to avoid: Calling anything 'Invincible' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 ...what the sailors call their ships is usually more amusing than their official name. Yes. For instance, the USS Bonhomme Richard (the Essex class flat top) was dubbed the "Bonny Dick". One can only imagine what was said about the crew of the USS Hancock. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 'Just the sort of bloody silly name that they would give it' - Reggie Mitchell's response when he heard what Vickers had decided to name his aircraft. Personal favourite: 'Warspite' One to avoid: Calling anything 'Invincible' I once crossed paths with an insufferable Brit who was convinced that the RN was absolutely tops in everything and the USN was lower than gum on the sole of your shoe. So I used to take great delight in mocking him with made up names for RN ships, like HMS Incontinent, HMS Deplorable, HMS Incorrigible, etc. The possibilities are endless and it was always fun to watch him totally lose his cool. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 US working nicknames are generally quite good and make up for a lot. I particularly like "Bone" (B-1b) though the old "Buff" (B-52) is not bad either. I think "Warthog" for the A-10 takes the all-time prize. Worn with pride by the guys who fly them. Who will ever remember the official name of Thunderbolt II? What a silly idea that was... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 There are a few decent US attempts, but their preference for naming things after old dead dudes doesn't really lend itself to romance. Abrams is ok, Stryker? wtf? Some of the missiles and air defence systems are cool though. I'm a big fan of "Javelin" considering what it does. Sidewinder, Phalanx, Stinger, Hellfire are all great names. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Sherman, Pershing, Stuart, Lee, Patton, Abrams, Bradley.. Shilelagh, Javelin, Dragon, Stinger, Voodoo, Walleye, Valkerie, Thunderbird, Starfighter, Galaxy, Hercules, Starlifter, Mule, Blackbird, Black Widow, Mustang, Warhawk, Corsair, Wildcat, Hellcat, Helldiver, Dauntless, etc.... Come on, those are cool names (mostly) And I agree..NEVER name anything Invincible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I once crossed paths with an insufferable Brit who was convinced that the RN was absolutely tops in everything and the USN was lower than gum on the sole of your shoe. So I used to take great delight in mocking him with made up names for RN ships, like HMS Incontinent, HMS Deplorable, HMS Incorrigible, etc. The possibilities are endless and it was always fun to watch him totally lose his cool. Michael If we're making fun of Royal Navy names, I might as well mention my personal favorite, HMS Cockchafer. An Insect class gunboat that I promise I did not make up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Did someone mention ship names and I get to do the Japanese ones? Oh joy: (from http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijnnames.htm) Hosho class Hosho: "How a phoenix dives", implies power Kaga class Kaga: "Increased Joy", a province name (Kaga was originally laid down as a battleship) Akagi class Akagi: "Red Castle", a volcano in the Kanto area (Akagi was originally laid down as a battlecruiser) Ryujo class Ryujo: "Such as a dragon builds", "Sacred Dragon" Soryu class Soryu: "Blue-gray dragon" Hiryu: "Dragon Flying in Heaven" Zuiho class Zuiho: "Lucky or Auspicious Phoenix" Shoho: "Luckbringing Phoenix" Ryuho class Ryuho: "Dragon and Phoenix" Shokaku class Shokaku: "Crane Flying in Heaven" (also "Happy Crane") Zuikaku: "Lucky or Fortunate or Auspicious Crane" Hiyo class Hiyo: "A Falcon Flying Away" Junyo: "Wandering Falcon" Taiho class Taiho: "Great or Greater Phoenix" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 bruce90, You're still not quite there yet. It's "Saracen." Michael Emrys, Too funny! How well I remember being literarily taken in irons when reading a Hornblower novel as a boy and running into the then utterly incomprehensible and not much more pronounceable H.M.S. Indefatigable. Off to the dictionary I went, only to quickly revisit after running into H.M.S. Bellerophon. Same thing happened when I first read about the Battle of Flamborough Head, pitting the Bon Homme Richard against H.M.S. Serapis. Other Means, I like the Japanese destroyer names, so lyrical, but I really must give the Russians the palm for naming artillery for flowers: Akatsiya (Acacia, 152mm SP), Giatsint (Hyacinth, Very long range 152mm), Vasilek (Corn Flower, 82mm automatic mortar), Tyulpan (Tulip, 240mm SP mortar). Totally, delightfully twisted! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Sherman, Pershing, Stuart, Lee, Patton, Abrams, Bradley. I think Sherman, Stuart, and Lee were all originally given by the British. Don't know about the Pershing. ...Thunderbird... That's a Ford. Unless you are confusing the name of the USAF Demonstration Team with the planes they flew. ...Starfighter... There were also the Starfire and the Shooting Star. Lockheed was big on "Star" names. ...Warhawk... I think the Brits came up with that first too, along with Kittyhawk. Corsair, Wildcat, Hellcat, Helldiver, Dauntless, etc.... Lightning, Thunderchief, Stratojet, Stratofortress, Tornado, Privateer, Avenger, Vindicator, Banshee, Panther, Cougar, Skytrooper, Skytrain, Bearcat, Tigercat, Cobra, Apache, as the man said, etc. You can't find any romance in any of those? Tsk, tsk. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 hoolaman, The Stryker, whose name looks like something straight out of an SF war novel, is in fact named for not one, but two Medal of Honor winners, one from WW II, the other from the Vietnam War. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stryker Michael Emrys, Error! Error! There IS and was a military Thunderbird, the one you know now and this http://www.fsplanet.com/20062006.htm and this http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2049251970046674741eOVpYe This distinguished pilot flat out calls his plane an F-84D Thunderbird, and this was BEFORE the precision Air Force flying team was born, during the Korean War! http://www.highironillustrations.com/rogues/ad_brown.html Tut! Tut! Someone forgot to list the darling of the ladies--the Vultee Vibrator! http://www.warbirdalley.com/bt13.htm And what about the Curtiss Hawk? This plane showed everyone the true potential of dive bombing--including the Germans! http://www.historynet.com/curtiss-sb2c-helldiver-the-last-dive-bomber.htm Then there's the Curtiss Sparrowhawk, the world's first parasite fighter plane. http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/ac-usn22/f-types/f9c.htm Hawks galore here, including a Tomahawk and a Mohawk! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_Hawk No poetry? Martin Marauder? Douglas Havoc, Devastator? Which is scarier to hear: a Grumman Avenger or a Fairey Fulmar? Had to go to the dictionary on first encounter with that latter item, but hard to top Swordfish as a torpedo bomber's functional description. For ASW, we send a Viking or an Orion. The Brits send a....wait for it...a Nimrod (AKA **** in colloquial American English)! Now, I know the Bible well enough that "Nimrod was a mighty hunter," but these days, it's right up there with with the Chevy Nova fiasco south of the border (Nova = no va = doesn't go, in Spanish). And what was the plane built in greater numbers and carrying more bomb load than it's high profile rival, the B-17, the Consolidated B-24 Liberator? Personally, what gives me heartburn is naming our aircraft carriers for live pols, starting with the shameless pandering of the U.S.S. Carl Vinson. Not in the same league with naming them for famous American battles: Saratoga, Oriskany, Lexington, Yorktown, etc. Talk about no poetry! The old naming conventions circa WW II made sense, with battleships named for states (Arizona), cruisers for cities (Atlanta), destroyers for famous American warriors (Reuben James) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Reuben_James_(FFG-57) , ammunition ships, appropriately enough, for volcanoes (ever seen one go up?), but my favorite is the little minesweeper/minelayer Oglala at Pearl Harbor, which means "egg layer" in one of the Native American tongues, want to say Ojibway. Submarines were fish, many of which I'd never heard of before (Hagfish--ick!); some of some which weren't even fish. Cuttlefish = squid. Now, I grant that American torpedo names are devoid of poetry Mk-14, Mk-48 ADCAP, as opposed to Spearfish, Tigerfish. Of course, the Japanese topped everyone with the says it all Long Lance! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 People, The software is of exceedingly delicate sensibilities and, unbelievable as it may seem, actually censored Delta Oscar Roger Kilo. Evidently, this means we're not allowed to even talk at elementary school level! Wow! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 No romance? Look at our WW II nose art. Smokin'!!! See also the guys with wives and girlfriends names on their planes, e.g., Chuck Yeager's Glamorous Glennis. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Ross Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Heh, I think that the Brits had some silly names (as well as some decent ones) for ships too. They had some effective ASW vessels named after flowers: HMS Pansy, HMS Snowdrop, HMS Daffodil etc. not exactly terrifying. Still if any Uboat survivor actually found out that he had been sunk by the 'Pansy', oh the humility. Shipwise the Japanese win hands down for 'romance'. Who wouldn't want to serve on 'Moon Visible As Day Joins Evening', or 'Wind From The Sea After Sunrise'... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce90 Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 After ' Saceren' and then 'Sarecen' I think maybe numbers aren't such a bad idea after all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Personally, what gives me heartburn is naming our aircraft carriers for live pols, starting with the shameless pandering of the U.S.S. Carl Vinson. This is exactly what I had in mind, too, though I was thinking of the John C. Stennis. And, as per my earlier comment, Wikipedia has the following nicknames for the Vinson: Starship Vinson, The Gold Eagle, San Francisco's Own, America's Favorite Carrier, Chuckie V, U.S.S. Chuck Wagon, The Carl Prison, Cell Block 70. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Michael Emrys, Error! Error! There IS and was a military Thunderbird, the one you know now and this http://www.fsplanet.com/20062006.htm You'll note that that is a skin for a flight sim. And that it is done up in the colors of the flight demonstration team of that name. and this http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2049251970046674741eOVpYe And this, I think, refers to the name of the squadron to which this particular plane belonged. In any event, the early F-84s (the straight winged version) were called Thunderjet. The later F-84F (the swept winged version (actually almost a total redesign, but that's another story)) was called the Thunderstreak. Its photorecon derivative, the RF-84F, was called the Thunderflash. So there. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Naming the photo-recce version Thunderflash is rather good, now that you bring it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.