Particle accelerator going to kill us all?

[volfrahm]

Nobody has ever created a minuscule black hole, so who knows what will happen. Maybe I should schedule my vacation days within the next few months?

[Stalins Organ]

I think we had this covered a few weeks before the old GF was swallowed by a black hole....

A small black hole is still small - so small that the event horison of a blach hols generated by an atomic mass will be so small it could probably sit inside an atom and not affect it. You could have dozens - hundreds - thousands - inside your body without noticing.

Even if one did suck up a stray subatomic particle the resulting "larger" black hole would still be effectively in a total vacuum with nothing nearby close enough to be affected by it.

And on top of that if Hawking Radiation does exist then the micro-atomic black hole will cease to exist in a micro-second anyway.

but even if it doesn't it's so small that it might take billions of years to actually interact with it's nearest atom of ormal matter, or pass completely through the earth a few million times without hitting anything.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Still a scary idea, because they aren't entirely sure. Naturally scientists aren't supposed to be 100% sure of anything, but when such merely theoretical uncertainty is applied to the existence of Earth it gets my attention.

What are we supposed to get out of this whole deal, anyway? All of it sounds like highly theoretical experiments with no real foreseeable use to me. Hyper expensive geeking.

[volfrahm]

But can you guarantee H.P Lovecraft creatures won't come out of the other dimension?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

It's a deal breaker if they DON'T.

[SSgt Viljuri]

What are we supposed to get out of this whole deal, anyway? All of it sounds like highly theoretical experiments with no real foreseeable use to me. Hyper expensive geeking.

There are two classes of physicists, theoretical and experimental. This project falls under the category of experimental.

Thankfully Pauli isn't alive any more, but this talk is bat**** crazy, resembles some kind of common man's (=the Sun reading) fear of the dark. Being uninformed or mentally deficient is never a nice sight and no, there's absolutely no possibility for anything too remarkable to happen, as we are being constantly bombarded by even higher energy collisions, when cosmic particles and gamma rays hit upper atmosphere.

Science is the highest pursuit what a man can do in this world. If we as a human race would get too bored and cease to seek answers to questions supposedly too "far out there" (=to the Sun reading part of the populace), our societies will stagnate and fall to anarchy.

[Wybert Takahashi]

Science is the highest pursuit what a man can do in this world.

Why's that then?

Well, besides or how the rest of the paragraph.

[Other Means]

We don't know how the Universe works. These people are trying to understand it. If we do know it might do us some good.

We've managed to get an understanding of magnetic and electrical fields - the easy, not very strong stuff. That's turned out quite useful.

If we got a proper understanding of the stronger fields then that might be quite useful to.

Worth finding out.

[SSgt Viljuri]

Why's that then?

Well, besides or how the rest of the paragraph.

Pure economic necessity. In order to keep the growth going (it's not like anybody could work more than 24 hours in a given day), we must find sustainable new technologies of how to live on this planet (and beyond).

Even if many people in the developed World are living in a relative affluence, we are not even close of being sustainable or fair enough to those who live in the developing counties in outright misery.

That, and we must know more. Information is valuable for information's sake. We are just beginning to grasp what's out there. The fact that on a personal level things as love, happiness and well-being are more important doesn't mean we wouldn't have our communal aesthetic side as well or somefink.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Eh, to me it smacks of scientific decadence.

Sure, it's kinda cool, and science is a good thing. But when you throw the obscene amounts of money at it that are involved with CERN and the LHC I kinda want, nay demand, a real in my hands tech to result from it in the end. But from my reading this isn't in the cards.

Also, while the CERN guys are quick to rule out any risk (and why wouldn't they?) they also expect unexpected, spectacular results results. How can you possibly rule one thing out if you also predict unexpected and spectacular results. WTF? That's not reasoning of a quality that you can let the fate of the known universe depend on. Need I remind you there is no Undo button if they do mess up. Once again, I deem the chance of anything like that incredibly small, but that doesn't mean it should be brushed aside lightly.

Also, Viljuri, I would ask you to explain or withdraw some of the comments you made. While I find the entire tone uncalled for I found

Being uninformed or mentally deficient is never a nice sight

quite out of line.

[SSgt Viljuri]

Also, Viljuri, I would ask you to explain or withdraw some of the comments you made. While I find the entire tone uncalled for I found quite out of line.

I meant that in general terms, not directed at you personally. But duly withdrawn nevertheless.

Counting Bayesian probabilities is not that enlightening. It would be even possible that if you self personally take a walk on the other side of your room, the vacuum will seek an lower energy level and collapse with catastrophic consequences to the entire Universe.

That would BE in the realms of possibility, if those perpetual motion machines linked by Kettler would work. Scary, isn't it? Should we ban walking? Essentially there's no difference how "hard" we mash atoms and other particles together in some experiment or not (and in any case, similar reactions occur all the time in both "real reality" and as "virtual reality", even inside the atomic nuclei your body is made of), all of these are just movement or some fluctuations in our current topologically defined 4D space-time, what ever definitions and theories we use.

[SSgt Viljuri]

Not mention we already know, that it didn't go wrong! Wonderful, isn't it?

:eek:

Although this side is model dependent, but how cares...

[Wybert Takahashi]

Good answer. I'm not sure to call it the highest pursuit though. I think that would be mountain goat hunting. I mean, what can science do if we keep bombing each other? Might not the Iranians get some new super-science and start lazering us in our beds?

E.G, for you, a presumably moral and ethical type person, science can be the highest pursuit. Not sure all the cool dudes with the science are going to save us though.

Etc.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

for you, a presumably moral and ethical type person

That's twice now that I have to ask someone to withdraw a completely unfounded and spurious comment . I'm neither moral or ethical: I'm a Dutchman!

And thank you Viljuri, no offence taken if none was intended.

I would point out though that walking is a fairly normal part of daily life. If the universe does decide to go *plop* as a result of a jog around the park, so be it. **** happens, I guess. Paying billions upon billions for a chance to un/re-do the universe is not the smartest of moves unless there's a pay off at the other end. Looking at the experimental goals, this simply doesn't appear to be the case.

[Abbott]

Science is the highest pursuit what a man can do in this world.

That is a very subjective statement and pretty silly.

[stoat]

People were worried about the whole black hole genesis thing when RHIC was fired up. It was stated that A) the likelihood of actually creating a blackhole was very small, if a black hole was created it would likely evaporate within milliseconds, and C) isn't a man-made blackhole one hell of a badass way to go out?

[SSgt Viljuri]

That is a very subjective statement and pretty silly.

Yes, it's subjective and there are other aesthetic pursuits as well, like arts, music, literature and what ever. Work and hobbies can give higher delights too, as what comes to sheep husbandry. Kind of like a double whammy for Kiwis and Ozzies, not forgetting Yorkshiremen.

There's however something objective about body of knowledge, despite what the postmodernist say. Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are.

[costard]

I think the experiment is designed to give us a lead on a[n economically viable] fusion reactor. Surely a worthwhile pursuit?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I think the experiment is designed to give us a lead on a[n economically viable] fusion reactor. Surely a worthwhile pursuit?

None of the experiments have this goal as far as I am aware. Pretty generic unravelling mysteries of the universe stuff.

[Stalins Organ]

Work and hobbies can give higher delights too, as what comes to sheep husbandry. Kind of like a double whammy for Kiwis and Ozzies, not forgetting Yorkshiremen.

.

As opposed to the interesting and fun things Finns do in their spare time?

[Angus]

But can you guarantee H.P Lovecraft creatures won't come out of the other dimension?http://www.battlefront.com/community/images/icons/icon7.gif

Smile

They very well could...

http://www.thepaincomics.com/weekly080709.htm

I'm not made of string!