Egon Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hi there scenario designers, the ultimate link to have your (german) forces put together in a historically accurate manner: http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/kstnmain.htm Greetings - Egon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Just a little reminder how difficult it would be outfit two full-strength companies for battle with the current 250 troop limit. Hopefully the engine can be reworked to allow more troops without bringing the entire proceedings to a halt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egon Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 Originally posted by SlapHappy: Just a little reminder how difficult it would be outfit two full-strength companies for battle with the current 250 troop limit. Hopefully the engine can be reworked to allow more troops without bringing the entire proceedings to a halt. Agreed - raising the troop limit plus larger maps, perhaps a 4x4km grid, really would make a difference (and some 80mm mortars on halftracks, of course ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Originally posted by Egon: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SlapHappy: Just a little reminder how difficult it would be outfit two full-strength companies for battle with the current 250 troop limit. Hopefully the engine can be reworked to allow more troops without bringing the entire proceedings to a halt. Agreed - raising the troop limit plus larger maps, perhaps a 4x4km grid, really would make a difference (and some 80mm mortars on halftracks, of course ). </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egon Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 You´re right, Slap - esp. the 50mm mortars make sense. They were standard for early war german troop formations (later succeded by the 81mm ones) and soviet infantry had tons of them available until the end of the war (quote: every second german soldiers owns the iron cross, every second soviet soldier owns a 50mm mortar). Greetings - Egon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Actually, if I remember correctly, the 50mm was a platoon organic heavy weapon and the 81mm was a company weapon. So it was an echelon thing. It is true that the 50mm was kind of phased out because it was generally regarded as being rather ineffective. The US, however, continued to use it's 60mm mortar throughout the war. I just got through reading a book written by a US soldier called "Sixty Days in Combat" who was part of a 60mm mortar squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egon Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 .. that´s true - company-wise the 81mm (6 of them, or was it 4 ?) plus 2 of the heavy 120mm mortars - good indirect firepower with short delay. Although you need to change firing positions quite often, they attract enemy artillery for obvious reasons. Best to have half of them firing and the other half rushing to new firing positions (and that´s were the SdKfz 251 comes into play ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 This might be harder than it sounds given this game engine. As far as I can tell, there is no way to simulate high-lobbing indirect fire with on-board elements. Only with OBA assets. At least there are no variables I have found to simulate it (doesn't mean they aren't there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egon Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Another problem: lots of new animations needed for those mortar squads embarking, disembarking, moving, loading, firing etc. . Something more likely to have for a future TOW 2, I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thork Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'd more like to have ToW1 finished. Even if it takes a few more (pay-)addons... Indirect fire. Some new animations/units. Bigger Maps and a dynamic campaign should all be possible on the current engine and would make this game into a classic! Im not really sure esp. about the indirect fire.... Maybe Sneaksie or smbdy else could enlighten us. [ January 16, 2008, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: Thork ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Actually there is a grw42 model (120mm German mortar) already in the game. It's in the Germans weapons folder. Also there is a list of animation commands for a 82mm mortar (Russian?) as shown here: </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">[VisibleAnimsTables] 0 Ai/Animator/SMesh/MortarTables.ini [View] Mesh1 3do/Artillery/82mmMortar/hier.him Mi82 Loader Shooter Infantry [states] 0 all [Commnads] 0 IDLE 1 IDLE1 2 START ROTATE 3 END ROTATE 4 ROTATE RIGHT 5 ROTATE LEFT 6 N_ASSEMBLE 7 START MOVE 8 ASSEMBLE 9 END MOVE 10 MOVE_BACK 11 MOVE 12 STOP 13 DEATH 14 ONE SHOOT 15 RESERV 16 RESERV 17 RESERV 18 RESERV 19 RESERV 20 CREW_IN_COMMANDER 21 CREW_OUT_COMMANDER 22 CREW_IN_DRIVER 23 CREW_OUT_DRIVER 24 CREW_IN_FRONT 25 CREW_OUT_FRONT 26 CREW_IN_BACK 27 CREW_OUT_BACK [Options] Mortar true </pre> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 It's important to point out that, in the game, certain weapon types "share" animations. For instance LMG's use the animation tables for the BAR weapons as well. It's possible, therefore to change characteristics for some of the weapons. For instance, in an attempt to model the Garand as a semi-automatic rifle, I changed the animation type to SMG and manipulated the fire rate of the weapon itself. Unfortunately this causes the gun to be fired from the hip, like all the other SMG-types. I thought it looked hokey, so I changed it back. You can change the fire rate of the Garand and not change the animation type (rfl), but the animation of working the bolt interferes with this and you do not end up with the desired result. What is really needed is a separate semi-auto rifle animation. it is very easy, however, to change the number of rounds fired in a burst for automatic weapons. You can even change the frequency of rounds fired within the burst itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egon Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 Hmmm - very interesting stuff. Looks like the designers sorted the "on-map"-mortars out for some mysterious reason (?). P.S.: a.f.a.i.k., medium size mortars are 81mm for German and 82mm for Soviet troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppelhopser Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 BTW I clearly remember ingame screen shots of russian mortars firing and on the move, from about 2004. Maybe I find them on my HD. However there might have been be a development problem with trajectory and such. Or maybe it was too omnipotent in crushing AT guns which are fundamental to gameplay and missions. I also remember a screenshot of the german 2cm Flak, though that's not the theme here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofl Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Originally posted by Stoppelhopser: BTW I clearly remember ingame screen shots of russian mortars firing and on the move, from about 2004. Maybe I find them on my HD. However there might have been be a development problem with trajectory and such. Or maybe it was too omnipotent in crushing AT guns which are fundamental to gameplay and missions. I also remember a screenshot of the german 2cm Flak, though that's not the theme here. Yes i can also remeber that. Some other interesting screens like commander look out from hatch, german mortar, goliath and HMG on move you still can see on 1c site . http://games.1c.ru/ww2rts/?type=gallery&page=5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyman56 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 It looks sooooooo good on those shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 That's PERFECT for the scale of this game...little 5cm mortar. And WHY would you have all the animations and such for the HMG's and then take them out? I don't get it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egon Posted January 20, 2008 Author Share Posted January 20, 2008 Gentlemen, to get back to the original topic, here is some info on Red Army infantry formations: Soviet rifle battallion - arming and formation - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1st rifle co 118 men (8 lmg, 24 smg, 64 auto-carb, 22 pstl) 2nd rifle co 118 men (8 lmg, 24 smg, 64 auto-carb, 22 pstl) 3rd rifle co 118 men (8 lmg, 24 smg, 64 auto-carb, 22 pstl) 1 mortar co 51 men (7 122mm mrt, 12 smg, 22 carb, 12 pstl) 1 hmg co 47 men (9 hmg, 20 smg, 12 carb, 15 pstl) 1 AT gun plt 20 men (2 7,62 cm AT guns, 12 smg, 6 pstl) 1 AT rifle plt 17 men (9 AT rifl, 6 smg, 7 carb, 4 pstl) 1 staff 83 men (3 lmg, 20 smg, 30 carb, 30 pstl) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - total 572 men (inclusive 46 officers) (sources used: Middeldorf, E., Taktik im Russlandfeldzug, Darmstadt 1956) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egon Posted January 20, 2008 Author Share Posted January 20, 2008 .. with these numbers, it appears to me that a soviet rifle company consists of four platoons four platoons each 28 men + 1 plt leader + 1 co sergeant + 1 co leader ------------------ = 118 total [ January 20, 2008, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Egon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichenberg Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Good info! Is it a rifle battallion from early or from late in the war?? Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 For the German Army: The Infantry Battalion, circa 1941 to 1942 Battalion Headquarters (5 Officers, 27 men) Communications Platoon (22 men) Battalion Supply Train (32 men) Machine Gun Company (5 Officers, 197 men) Company HQ (1 Officer, 14 men) Company Train (17 men) Mortar Platoon (1 Officer, 61 men) Three Machine Gun Platoons, each (1 Officer, 35 men) Three Rifle Companies (4 Officers, 187 men), each comprised of; Company HQ (1 Officer, 12 men) Company Supply Train (24 men) Antitank Rifle Section (7 men) Three Rifle Platoons, each comprised of; Platoon HQ (1 Officer, 5 men) Light Mortar Section (3 men) Four Rifle Squads, each comprised of 10 men Total Strength of 861 all ranks (22 Officers and 839 men) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Continued: The Grenadier Battalion, late 1943 Battalion Headquarters (4 Officers, 13 men) Communications Platoon (25 men) Battalion Supply Train (35 men) Machine Gun Company (3 Officers, 205 men) Company HQ (1 Officer, 19 men) Company Train (29 men) Three Machine Gun Platoons, each (1 Officer or NCO, 36 men) 12 cm Mortar Platoon (1 Officer, 47 men) Three Rifle Companies (2 Officers, 143 men), each comprised of; Company HQ (1 Officer, 11 men) Company Supply Train (13 men) 8 cm Mortar Section (21 men) Three Rifle Platoons, each comprised of; Platoon HQ (1 Officer or NCO, 5 men) Three Rifle Squads, each comprised of 9 men Total Strength of 720 all ranks (13 Officers and 707 men) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 And finally.... The Grenadier Battalion, circa mid-1944 Battalion Headquarters (4 Officers, 13 men) Communications Platoon (25 men) Battalion Supply Train (35 men) Heavy Company (3 Officers, 202 men) Company HQ (1 Officer, 19 men) Company Train (17 men) Machine Gun Platoon (1 Officer, 54 men) 8 cm Mortar Platoon (66 men) 12 cm Mortar Platoon (1 Officer, 46 men) Three Rifle Companies (2 Officers, 140 men), each comprised of; Company HQ (1 Officer, 11 men) Company Supply Train (13 men) Machine Gun Section (18 men) Three Rifle Platoons, each comprised of; Platoon HQ (1 Officer or NCO, 5 men) Three Rifle Squads, each comprised of 9 men Total Strength of 708 all ranks (13 Officers and 695 men) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 These lists give you a pretty good idea when the light mortar (5cm) left the organic platoon assignment and fell out of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Here's a detailed breakdown of that '44 Grenadier Platoon: Rifle Platoon (3), each Unit Rank Weapon Vehicle Platoon HQ Platoon Commander * see note MP40, pistol Messenger (2) Private Rifle Stretcher Bearer Private Pistol Wagon driver Private Rifle Horse (2), wagon & trailer Horse leader Private Rifle Horse, cart & trailer Rifle Squad (3) each Squad Leader NCO MP40 Rifleman (5) Private Rifle Rifleman Private MP40 Machine Gunner Private Pistol, MG34/42 Assistant Gunner Private Rifle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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