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Nikki Mond

TD not the best opponents

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The battle generator is great and works well. Its great to be able to use the editors and further mod these user generated battles.

I noticed Tank destroyers, turret-less types like the german-russo variants do not make great AI opponents. I always use turreted tanks as the enemy, which respond faster and seem to adapt to the changing situation. This may be realistic. True, due to limited field of fire and view. But they really don't do much. Perhaps the enemy TD AI routines could be looked at a little closer. These things should be spinning left and right constantly acquiring new targets.

This is the best game I've played in along time. And I look forward to an evolving series of sequals that I hope will be with us for a long time to come.

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Nikki...I concure with your TD assment. "These things should be spinning left and right constantly acquiring new targets." It's tough enough to have them on your side but what really gets me is having to stay micro-managing them to stay in ambush mode! Every minute or so I have to give them all a STOP & DEFEND order! LOL!

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Just acquired TOW and I'm seeing the same thing in battle generator created missions with friendly Wespe SPG's. They won't acquire a target unless I tell them to and constantly ignore the stop and defend order. Might be a bug targeting logic for SPG class vechicles.

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Originally posted by Nikki Mond:

These things should be spinning left and right constantly acquiring new targets.

I'm not so sure thats true in RL Nikki. Sure by thier very nature a turretless TD has to swing to acquire new targets, that's the disadvantage paid for a lower profile & a bigger gun. The Americans got round this by sacrificing armour in favour of a turret with the M10 & M36.

I've read accounts especially for the Germans with thier Stugs that the TD was to fire on a fixed axis from camoflaged cover whenever possible in defensive battle. Often they would even switch off the engine to lessen the chances of detection when firing from cover. Which has its own problems when you need to move in a hurry (Cloud of smoke from engine starting.)! This of course means that the choice of firing position for the TD is paramount. Turretless TDs have serious disadvantges in the attack & can be taken out of the fight relatively easily especially if the opposition choose to shoot at the tracks.

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shouldnt the commander be unbuttoned aquiring targets then the TD spins from its fixed ambush position.

One thing missing in this game is unbuttoned commanders...Tank SA should be about 1/10th of infantry SA unless unbuttoned

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@ Gnasher

Well I disagree based on the tactics used by Michael Wittman when he served as a Stug Commander in An Artillery AT Regt. Recognizing that the stug could apply a Track turn very fast, faster than a turret could be cranked, he would spot a target, call the bearing to his driver and the gunner would apply the last 15 degrees. Wittman was an Ace in a stug long before the Tiger.

Was Wittman the only one using this tactic? I would think this would be standard doctrine for TD's on the attack. True they were used as you stated in a defensive posture. But they were also used as tanks in that respect.

@Peacemker

Unbuttoned commanders is an implied abstraction I guess we have to live with ;)

[ February 09, 2008, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Nikki Mond ]

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Nikki...you read his book! Wittman's. He was a great spotter! Using TD's in the "Ambush-defensive" mode would be great it TOW...if they would only STAY were you put them!!! "Ambush" is what it's all about.

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Originally posted by Mr. Yubby:

Just acquired TOW and I'm seeing the same thing in battle generator created missions with friendly Wespe SPG's. They won't acquire a target unless I tell them to and constantly ignore the stop and defend order. Might be a bug targeting logic for SPG class vechicles.

Wonder why some game developers include the "Wespe" or "Hummel" in the arsenal. :confused: That´s a complete waste of space that can be used for real frontline units. Wespe and Hummel are mobile artillery and acted almost exclusively from behind the frontline at common artillery engagement ranges (as would be outside the scale of ToW). :rolleyes:

Saw that nonesense at first in the "Seelow" height scenario in the first ToW demo. tongue.gif

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I would have thought that TD's were more commonly used in defense... couldnt say for sure though... just the way I used them in CM.

i always found that my M10's would get nailed in attack, but in defense they were strong when given a well sighted ambush

[i just realised how stupid that sounds..... all armour should perform well when given a well sighted ambush :rolleyes: ]

[ February 11, 2008, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: R33GZ ]

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