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Abidubi

A couple sugestions

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Well first off, amazing concept. I especially love the destructable terrain. I love literaly hammering someone into the ground. I do understand quite well that it is a BETA, but I have some pet peevs and ideas and heack, isn't the point of a BETA to nag and nag and complain and wine about things until the game becomes absolutly awesome tongue.gif It's already awesome, but we just need to add an absolutly to it :D

- OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG... OMG! THIS GAME NEEDS A TUTORIAL. Once you get the hang of it it's not so bad, but my first six hours of game time was spent thinking "What the heck is that thing?" "How do I switch to first person?" "Is that supposed to do that?" "Why are my shots exploding before they get get 10m away?" etc.

I admit that I didn't read any manual (can't find one in my folder and a little too lazy to look for one tongue.gif ) but neither will a heck of a lot of others (anyone whoi just jumped in say I ). If you have played the game Homeworld 2, it's also fairly complicated, and the camera is difficult to get you head around at first, but they have an excelent tutorial that makes all the difference. This game should too. A short how to move, aim, shoot and move the camera, then maybe a how the comand map works and how to drop your guys (and what the rules of doing that are), and then some advanced tips.

- Flying right now is PORPASE HORK (to quote futurama :rolleyes: ). Vertically it is just fine ATM, but moving forward and backward (using pitch) is un intuative and next to imposible to be done precisely. I can see 2 reasons for that.

#1, from what I can tell, you are using a similar method to that of halo, which is fine normaly, but not in this case due to reason 2. It makes it hard to tell when you have too much momentum and also makes it difficult to control how fast you are changing pitch and not to mention that there is a lot of ocilation going on. I would love to see a more BF1942 style in that the faster you move the mouse, the faster you change your orientation (both pitch and direction.

#2 Correct me if I am wrong, but I belive that the server must decide what you are doing before you see it happen. That is to say, you hit turn left... the server sees you want to turn left, so it turns you... then you see it on your screen when you get that information from the server. Depending on your connection to the server it could take a split second (noticible but not anyoing) to half a second + (which is excusiatingly painful). Not bad if your on the ground, but horrible if you are flying. Unless you want to spend 30 sec bobing back and forth over where you want to land... and get shot down for sure, it's just pointless to even try.

YES, I know the subtitle of the game is "mechanized combat in the far furture", not "air combat in the far fututre", but to quote someone somewhere sometime... "If you ain't gonna do it right, don't do it at all!". I don't mean any offence (it's not like I've ever even made a game that would rivel pong) I just mean, why have flying in the game, if it's not even a viable option.

- Uhhhhhhhh, isn't it suppose to be realistic? Whats my problem? Why I do belive you may have some error with falling phsics. The other day, I picked up and enemy hurrican with the dropship (I belive his name was none... something or other :confused: ) and then poceded to fly up as fast as possible, I was at least as high as the dropships are when they first come into view, and I droped him while I was still flying up (so although I wasn't able to see him at that point, according to physics, he would keep flying up for another second or two). I had lost control and landed upsidedown, so I asked him if that hurt him at all. He answered "OH, YA smile.gif " "I had to suicided because I was upside down". From what I understand, he may have taken a littile damage, but he was still alive and well, just upside down with no way to right himself. Now I'm no expert, but who could survive a fall from just 200m in a futuristic heavily armoured hover tank... UPSIDE DOWN. first off I'm gonna do the mgh equation, figuring this tank must weigh something like 4000 kg (thats just a guess) and taking the .89g into acount. Thats about 6977600J of energy or hitting the ground at 59m/sec or 212KPH (can you tell I use metric?). I don't know if they have super airbags in the future, but even if a 4000Kg tank could survive an impact like that, I doubt the crew could. Armour would most likely kill the occupants because of the shorter deccel distance (no crumpling) therfore higher G forces (can you tell I've taken a few physics classes). OK, ENOUGH OF SCHOOL. My point is, I really don't think someone should be able to survive that.

- I know it's been brough up before but... LET ME OUT. That X in the upper right is SO not obvious. I think it would make more sence to be another tab (the right most) that would read "quit game" or "exit" or "give up" etc.

- Another already brought up, a hit indicater. It's the future for cripes sake. You think they would have something like that. Why do I care? From game to game, the way the hits work differ. In some, if you see it hit on your screen, you hit him. Others you have to lead to adjust for lag. I have no idea in this game and the fact that it may take 1 hit or 20 to kill someone makes it extreamly difficult to tell if your actually doing anything, and it is very discouraging.

- Anyone like crusing down the highway listening to ACDC's "Highway to Hell"? I certanly know I do. Some not too intrusive but still mood setting battle music would be a nice addition.

- Another future thing. There should be a lot more eye candy. Lots of blips and targeting information. Maybe when you hold your indicator over a target some info should pop up. Maybe a range estimation, a little schematic of a major weakpoint or feature in a cool 3D schematic (only when in the first person zoom mode) maybe depending on you weapon (useless for lazer type) a little fire trejectory like a thin red line (visible to you only) would pop out of your barel and travel to the target every 2 seconds (useful to tell if you might hit something like a friendly dropship landing or the top of a bridge).

- Of course, another future thing ( I'll even have a few more). It would be nice if rather than being red dots on you mini map, you would see maybe a triangle for tanks, a 90 clockwise "(" for a hovercraft, a ^ for a mortar, an empty triangle for light wheeled vehicals, and so on.

- The mortars aren't exactly mortars. Yes, they shoot exacly like a mortar, how they shoot however is not. Right now you have to have LOS to see a target. Therefore you cannot intelegently shoot from behind a hill or in a ditch whithout those lightning rods, cough... I mean sensors. Mortars should have a special fire (default now is B) for maybe a remote sensor, that would get radar information for about 90 degrees in the direction you placed it (LOS), and you wouldn't have to call in a drop ship. Would be permanet untill you get killed or picked up, and destructable but barely visible. this way you could place it where you think they will come from, role behind a hill and balst away. it's not like it will give any unfair advantage, that just what it does, not to mention it's gonna take about 30 sec before it hits anyway.

- Some kind of temporary range hold button. Why? Well when you try to shoot down a drop ship, it's nearly impossible (I just use the ctrl-m function and aim at that spot and try to time my shot). If you aim at it, range is good but by the time your shot gets there, it's gone. If you led your shot, you miss by miles because all of a sudden, it's calculating your range for that moon in the sky. Rather than using manual range ( I couldn't even if I wanted to as I don't have more than 1 mouse button, and at present I can't save keybord settings) you aim at the dropship, it calculates your range, you hit the button, it holds that range no matter where you aim, you lead your shot and fire. The you let go whenever your done.

Ok, I think thats all the whining for now. Hope your not deaf. I just really think that these not only help to improve all around gameplay and entertaiment, but also probably attract a few more customers who try the demo, especially the tutorial (I assume there will be a demo like all your other games, CM would have been great but my old comp sucked at running it and my new one can't cuz of OSX).

Please add any thoughts, as I know there is a magical formula somewhere, and I want to find it as much as anyone else. GREAT GAME :cool:

[ March 19, 2006, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Abidubi ]

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Right click to set manual range on target, [ and ] to adjust, I never use auto-range.

You can use the minimap to target mortars, press ctrl-m then click your target on the map.

If you press space you get a more detailed map showing unit types and AA coverage.

Other players can provide targets for you also.

I've had my turret destroyed when I flipped a vehicle too...

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Originally posted by Bnej:

Right click to set manual range on target, [ and ] to adjust, I never use auto-range.

Thats cool, I didn't know it saved the range. I guess by right click you mean I can control-click? As I said, 1 button.

Originally posted by Bnej:

You can use the minimap to target mortars, press ctrl-m then click your target on the map.

Already knew that. Not an issue, plus I use it for more than mortars.

Originally posted by Bnej:

If you press space you get a more detailed map showing unit types and AA coverage.

I'm talking about on the mini map for quick referance. Unless your hidden behind some conviniant rock, you don't really want to completely ignor everything around you, and again cough FUTURE tongue.gif

Originally posted by Bnej:

Other players can provide targets for you also.

Absolutely useless. No, not the players, just no way to do such a thing. How is someone supposed to tell you where to aim? "Ya Jim, that way, behind that rock, not that one, the other rock!" There is no coordinate system, and I think 25 square kilometers is a little big to just randomly lob shots over an area. And again, FUTURE. You would think there would be some way to relay targeting information from one vehical's computer to another.

Originally posted by Bnej:

I've had my turret destroyed when I flipped a vehicle too...

Funny how flipping severly damaged you yet falling from an incredible high didn't kill him. And again, think of the occupants.

Thanks for the feedback.

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"I admit that I didn't read any manual (can't find one in my folder and a little too lazy to look for one)"

Start-Program-Battlefront-Dropteam even lazy can accomplish that without any thought. So you'd rather stumble around for six hours online rather than take five minutes and glance at the relevant section of the manual? :rolleyes: Sorry couldn't help it.

Re: The falling thing, on a related note when a drop ship is shot down during extraction and flass on your head other than pinning you you don't get much in the way of real damage either.

I also agree re: the exit command.

Los

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Absolutely useless. No, not the players, just no way to do such a thing. How is someone supposed to tell you where to aim? "Ya Jim, that way, behind that rock, not that one, the other rock!" There is no coordinate system, and I think 25 square kilometers is a little big to just randomly lob shots over an area. And again, FUTURE. You would think there would be some way to relay targeting information from one vehical's computer to another.
The point I assume is that units seen by your buddies are displayed on your map. So if your friend an enemy you can target it using the map.

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"The point I assume is that units seen by your buddies are displayed on your map. So if your friend an enemy you can target it using the map."

As far as I can tell, it doesn't work that way. I almost never see anything that is not in my LOS, even when there are friendlys RIGHT THERE. Like literally there, no question. Maybe only human players can give you that info, but I have yet to see that, and it makes it a little dumb.

"So you'd rather stumble around for six hours online rather than take five minutes and glance at the relevant section of the manual? Sorry couldn't help it."

Uh.... YA! tongue.gif

And no there is no PDF in my drop team folder anywhere. Done a seach.

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Abidubi, I think I've finally met someone who drinks as much espresso as I do. smile.gif

OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG... OMG! THIS GAME NEEDS A TUTORIAL.
That's pretty much exactly how I said it to my wife a few months ago. One of our worst fears about DropTeam is that potential players will fire it up and conclude "so all you do is drive around shoot stuff" when in fact there is so much more than that beneath the surface. A tutorial would definitely be a good thing.

Flying right now is PORPASE HORK
Everyone in the private beta said so, but I was the pig headed one who said, "it's supposed to be challenging and it's so flexible the way it works now and it's so rewarding once you get good at it... blah blah" Well, I'm not feeling so pig-headed anymore. We need to simplify the flight controls.

I do belive you may have some error with falling phsics.
There is an option called "Collision Damage" which is currently turned off on all of our servers. When it is turned on, things like falling hurt. The reason it is turned off is because it still needs to be cleaned up a bit more (it is too sensitive right now, so sometimes you take damage just from dropping from a dropship, etc.)

That X in the upper right is SO not obvious.
Well maybe you think so but as I peruse this forum no one else seems to agree... ;)

Anyone like crusing down the highway listening to ACDC's "Highway to Hell"? I certanly know I do. Some not too intrusive but still mood setting battle music would be a nice addition.
You can literally play AC/DC by dropping your own music files into the sound/music folder. The game will stream them for you as you play (on a random shuffle). See the manual for details.

Lots of blips and targeting information.
I like almost all of those idea. I've put them on our flyspray list.

It would be nice if rather than being red dots on you mini map, you would see maybe a triangle for tanks, a 90 clockwise "(" for a hovercraft, a ^ for a mortar, an empty triangle for light wheeled vehicals, and so on.
Yep; added to flyspray.

I guess by right click you mean I can control-click? As I said, 1 button.
Come on, Abi. You can drop $20.00 on a real mouse for adults can't you? smile.gif

Absolutely useless. No, not the players, just no way to do such a thing. How is someone supposed to tell you where to aim? "Ya Jim, that way, behind that rock, not that one, the other rock!" There is no coordinate system,
Friendly players can (and should) place a waypoint for you and say "Abi, hit the waypoint!" No easier way in the world to target fire.

"The point I assume is that units seen by your buddies are displayed on your map. So if your friend an enemy you can target it using the map."

As far as I can tell, it doesn't work that way. I almost never see anything that is not in my LOS, even when there are friendlys RIGHT THERE. Like literally there, no question. Maybe only human players can give you that info, but I have yet to see that, and it makes it a little dumb.

The only time you gain detection of any enemy units that other people on your team see is when you have a command track on the ground. If you are not in a command track, then you do NOT see what your teammates see. In that case, you have to actually *talk* to each other and/or use waypoints to indicate the enemy's position.

I enjoyed your post very much, Abi. Please shout as you have more good ideas!

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One of our worst fears about DropTeam is that potential players will fire it up and conclude "so all you do is drive around shoot stuff" when in fact there is so much more than that beneath the surface.
This is exactly what I thought when I fired it up. "Huh, I drive around and blow stuff up." As I learned more and more about the game, I got more and more excited - but those without my epic patience ;) may drop the game too early.

"it's supposed to be challenging and it's so flexible the way it works now and it's so rewarding once you get good at it... blah blah"
I LOVE mastering a new vehicle and being one of the few that are really good at it... But the transport is simply way too hard. Keep the flight physics/dynamics the same if you want, but we have to fix the flying INTERFACE. With all the hills and mountains nearby, I have no idea if I'm pitched forward; it's too hard to tell if I'm rising or falling; etc. etc... We need more feedback on what the craft is doing. I'm getting better at it, but my flight usually consists of lurching forwards, hovering, lurching forwards again, and hovering more. smile.gif

Friendly players can (and should) place a waypoint for you and say "Abi, hit the waypoint!" No easier way in the world to target fire.
You know what would make that realistic? Hitting a button while looking at something targets it as a waypoint. Like, hit "G" and it'll pop up a quick waypoint, maybe with your name followed by a number or something. That would make it quick and easy to target for artillery. Heck, even make it so you can only have 1 waypoint quickmarked, and make "H" the "wipe" key for removing waypoints. smile.gif

The only time you gain detection of any enemy units that other people on your team see is when you have a command track on the ground.
Here's a suggestion that will meet you halfway while promoting more teamplay - if a commander orders a unit to attack an enemy, that enemy should show up on the units map. Just the other day I was telling someone to take out a rapidly-moving hurricane, and he didn't have LOS. "It's right there on the map!" I kept shouting, but he couldn't see it. After I finally realized he couldn't see what I could, I tried marking waypoints for him but the enemy was moving too quickly. :/

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Wow, I feel stupid. I compleatly forgot about waypoints. There goes my Mortar whining ;) But on that note, a waypoint is "the WAY you want to go", not what you want to shoot. Might make a bit a tactical sense if there was also a target button as well as a waypoint button. Afterall, if there's supposed to be a lot of stratagy and a dedicated commander, there may be waypoints and rally points on the map. Having a target point might make a little less confusion.

And I kinda like they idea of the hitting a button to set an enemy as a target, but who should be allowd to do it? I suppose anyone could, but I have no idea what that would do. I'm not for or against it, I just can't decide. But if something like that was implemented, i'd be nice to have a limmit of maybe 2 targets at a time, if you click a third, it errases the first. Just so you don't have to go around deleting waypoints all the time. And maybe they only last 1 min.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh, thats why he lived. I didn't realize collitions are off by default. But I have taken some damage in the hover tanks running into buildings a few times.

As for the mouse thing, did I mention I'm lazy tongue.gif In the next update when I can finally set custom controls (broken on mac for whatever reason, heard it's fixed now), I'll just assign it a key.

AC/DC is great for driving, but I'd like to see some music that specifically fits this game, to really set the mood. And in any game I could always run iTunes in the background anyway.

BTW ClaytoniousRex, I've been bouncing around the forum and it's great to see you guys really listening and giving all ideas a fair chance. If things continue like this, and ideas are selected carfully, this game could really reach it's maximum potential.

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