CMC use CMBB. Whats up with Vista ?

[Achim]

Hello,

most(all) of the CM Engine 1 products have problems with Windows Vista.

Will CMC support Vista (Vista 64) ?

[jomni]

Not actually Vista but modern DX10 cards in particular that comes with Vista machines.

[Moon]

It would be more fair to say this the other way around... modern DX10 cards have problems with CM Engine 1 (by design; i.e. the compatibility was broken on purpose). And Vista just has problems in general, by and in itself

We have no official statement yet how far the updates for CMBB will go. When we do, you'll hear them first.

[Hpt. Lisse]

I find the simple confession that Battlefront is engineering ANY updates to CMBB as stunning news.

If wide screen resolutions aren't too difficult a fix for the CM1 engine, that'd be pretty like...

[MeatEtr]

Originally posted by Moon:

It would be more fair to say this the other way around... modern DX10 cards have problems with CM Engine 1 (by design; i.e. the compatibility was broken on purpose). And Vista just has problems in general, by and in itself

We have no official statement yet how far the updates for CMBB will go. When we do, you'll hear them first.

Ok, so does this mean there will be changes made to CMBB thats not only just related to CMC? Like adding dust clouds from CMAK or AI improvements? I know this is probably a pointless question given what Moon just said. But what the hell.

Nonetheless, this is great news. I've been dreading upgrading my system because of the incompatibility.

[Kellysheroes]

I think it's safe to say more people have XP than Vista and the developers of BF should't put a whole lot of effort or resources into making it work on Vista than they should work on just getting it out for XP.

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

The game seems to have 10 years old graphics, why won't it run under anything ? CM had a DX7-8 based 3D engine, CMC has none.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO:

The game seems to have 10 years old graphics, why won't it run under anything ? CM had a DX7-8 based 3D engine, CMC has none.

CMx1 is DirectX5.

That's where all the trouble is coming from. I just hope CMC runs in Linux+Cedega - because CMBB does.

[HARI SELDON]

Originally posted by Kellysheroes:

I think it's safe to say more people have XP than Vista and the developers of BF should't put a whole lot of effort or resources into making it work on Vista than they should work on just getting it out for XP.

I've gotten CMBB to run with Vista 32 bit and nvidia 8500 card. The flashing problem has been resolved with fixes already posted. The frame rate is very slow. That's all that needs to be addressed.

[Nick Schieben]

Based on Moon's asinine comments about DX10 and/or Vista I don't know why anyone who upgraded their PC within the last 18 months would bother with this. I thought he was muzzled a while back for spouting the same kind of rubbish! I guess the release of PZC Kharkov kicked them up their collective arses. If they offer it for free I might just take a look. Apart from reading the posts of the 8 or so fanbois for CMSF there's not a hell of a lot going on here. Time to move on. I'll see you fellow WW2 gamers elsewhere.

[MeatEtr]

Don't you just love it when a dumbass starts shooting off at the mouth about things they know nothing about? I know its great. I'm not even gonna bother to try and fill him in. But I will wave him off...

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Originally posted by Kellysheroes:

I think it's safe to say more people have XP than Vista and the developers of BF should't put a whole lot of effort or resources into making it work on Vista than they should work on just getting it out for XP.

Now, there's a loser proposal. How many copies of this CMC package do you think that Battlefront will sell, anyway? I'd guess perhaps 10-20% of what CMBB sold, and they can't possibly do that well if they don't support what will become the dominant OS in the world over the coming year. I hate Vista, too, but its getting installed on millions of computers each month. BF can't afford to shrink their customer base one iota for a product with as limited appeal as CMC will likely have. They have to support Vista, or else.

PoE

[Kellysheroes]

Originally posted by MeatEtr:

Don't you just love it when a dumbass starts shooting off at the mouth about things they know nothing about? I know its great. I'm not even gonna bother to try and fill him in. But I will wave him off...

Yeah I love it cause it gives us something to read and laugh at from time to time. laughing

Also like this below post hahahahahah Guess he doesn't know about the CHOICE if customers want Vista or XP installed on their systems when they buy them or that XP is still alive and will continue to be the OS of the future until Windows 7 now. Vista is dead deadhead if you bought into it well you just failed. It's going to go down in history just like the ME OS did. You got sukered not the rest of us.

but its getting installed on millions of computers each month. BF can't afford to shrink their customer base one iota for a product with as limited appeal as CMC will likely have. They have to support Vista, or else.

I also love these VISTA OR ELSE type posts lol it's like the noobs saying WOW is going to go down and fail hahahaha

[ April 27, 2008, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Kellysheroes ]

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Originally posted by Kellysheroes:

I also love these VISTA OR ELSE type posts lol it's like the noobs saying WOW is going to go down and fail hahahaha

Hey, you want a good laugh? Email Steve and ask him how CMC will do, sales wise, if it has to be run on a legacy operating system.

[ChrisND]

Originally posted by Kellysheroes:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MeatEtr:

Don't you just love it when a dumbass starts shooting off at the mouth about things they know nothing about? I know its great. I'm not even gonna bother to try and fill him in. But I will wave him off...

Yeah I love it cause it gives us something to read and laugh at from time to time. laughing

Also like this below post hahahahahah Guess he doesn't know about the CHOICE if customers want Vista or XP installed on their systems when they buy them or that XP is still alive and will continue to be the OS of the future until Windows 7 now. Vista is dead deadhead if you bought into it well you just failed. It's going to go down in history just like the ME OS did. You got sukered not the rest of us.

but its getting installed on millions of computers each month. BF can't afford to shrink their customer base one iota for a product with as limited appeal as CMC will likely have. They have to support Vista, or else.

I also love these VISTA OR ELSE type posts lol it's like the noobs saying WOW is going to go down and fail hahahaha </font>Oh dear, I think you hit the wrong link. I think you meant to go here:

http://forums.counter-strike.com/

[jomni]

Honestly, I have no major complaints with Vista.

[Moon]

Originally posted by Nick Schieben:

Based on Moon's asinine comments about DX10 and/or Vista I don't know why anyone who upgraded their PC within the last 18 months would bother with this. I thought he was muzzled a while back for spouting the same kind of rubbish! I guess the release of PZC Kharkov kicked them up their collective arses. If they offer it for free I might just take a look. Apart from reading the posts of the 8 or so fanbois for CMSF there's not a hell of a lot going on here. Time to move on. I'll see you fellow WW2 gamers elsewhere.

Bye

(I'll never understand why people take the trouble to post "I'll never look at this game" messages in forums. I'd rather be posting in forums where I hang out and have fun than doing it. Experience shows that such people will do the opposite of what they're saying they will - moving on - so I will take the time to respond).

We're going to release CMC for those who want it because we feel that we owe something to that community. If this means that we'll sell 8 copies (or give them away for free), so be it. Nobody is going to force you to buy it (or even look at it) if you don't like.

As for my Vista comments - they're based on what we saw in our tech support so far as well as what I had to go through myself to get it running properly on a new laptop. Your mileage may vary. I heard that Microsoft announced that Vista is going to be replaced quickly with the next version. I know that for me personally Vista means that my next desktop will be an iMac And I also know that Charles is going to switch his maind coding back to the Mac in the future, too

Having said that, obviously we're going to have to be compatible with whatever "main" OS for the PC is out there in the future. So we'll dutifully oblige for future games of course.

Generally other games have no influence on what we do - or don't do - at all. This whole them vs. us thing is only in your head. I don't know PZC other than what had leaked to our forums and heard that it had a lot of problems initially, so it's great if they solved those. Not that I care, but if it means that you have found a game you like, I'm happy for you. It won't change our future planning or games design at all, however.

CMC in particular needs fairly little effort to "whip it into shape". The key is that it needs a combined effort of all involved after all this time, which is what we have initiated now. Obviously we think that the game idea and design is good enough to warrant this effort and that the game will find CMx1 fans that will really appreciate what it offers. I don't know anything else like it, to be honest.

But it's clear also that it's coming very late and that it is not a "mass-market product". We are making this for the existing CM fanbase, which is still bigger than that of many other - newer - games. If you "moved on", then obviously CMC is not for you, and we're perfectly happy to live with that

Martin

[Scheer]

I cant honestly understand people, complaining about an eight year old codebase, having issues with one year old hardware and software.

Do you also complain about your old Dos/win95 games not running on Vista ?

Apart from Vista being crap for various reasons, CMC was always intended for the hardcore/fanboy base of Combatmission. And those people will jump through every hoop to get their hands on CMC.

Me included. I´ll buy three copies of CMC ...

[Hunter]

...and just to be clear, CMC will run on Vista. But I don't see CMBB being changed to suit it (if there are indeed problems in running it, although I noted some posts saying it already runs on Vista).

[WineCape]

Originally posted by Moon:

snip..snip..yada..yada..

I love a reasonable man reasoning & behaving in a gentlemanly way. Well put, excellently stated and yes, the reasonable man in me follows your reasoning and logic.

Thank you Martin.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Hunter:

...and just to be clear, CMC will run on Vista. But I don't see CMBB being changed to suit it (if there are indeed problems in running it, although I noted some posts saying it already runs on Vista).

You need to read closer, I think. The problem isn't Vista as such. It appears to be DirectX 10.

In MS version of the world you only get DirectX 10 when these conditions are met:

- a DX 10 video card (NVidia 8xxx)

- Vista (XP does not have DX 10)

- CMx1 problems possibly limited to 64 bit Vista

So you see plenty of Vista people running CMx1, they just can't have a NVidia 8xxx card. And you see people using NVidia 8xxx cards because they work fine under XP. But either way, these people don't run DirectX 10.

I wouldn't blindly assume that this is easy to fix either, wasn't CMx1 using some now rotten old 3D library on top of DX5? If so and if you don't have source for the library there'll be a hike.

[Canada Guy]

Redwolf,

If this is true then CMx1 should run fine if I have a XP machine and an ATI 3870 card in my machine (even though the 3870 is a DX10 card). DX10 will never be installed on an XP machine. From my understanding, CMC will work fine (and you can even play it without CMBB behind it) but I would love to see CMBB's usefulness extended into the future. I have been putting off upgrading my videocard for a few months now as I was afraid that this combination would not allow CMx1 to work.

I am just curious. Was CMAK upgraded to work with DX6+ when it was released or is it still the same old DX5 engine?

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Canada Guy:

Redwolf,

If this is true then CMx1 should run fine if I have a XP machine and an ATI 3870 card in my machine (even though the 3870 is a DX10 card). DX10 will never be installed on an XP machine. From my understanding, CMC will work fine (and you can even play it without CMBB behind it) but I would love to see CMBB's usefulness extended into the future. I have been putting off upgrading my videocard for a few months now as I was afraid that this combination would not allow CMx1 to work.

I am just curious. Was CMAK upgraded to work with DX6+ when it was released or is it still the same old DX5 engine?

CMAK is almost precisely the same as CMBB from a DX standpoint. You can tell by the way they work or break in different emulators on Linux. The braindead video resolution test at the beginning seems to be the major issue here, BTW, apart from optional things like fog.

Anyway...

I think you misunderstood my message. I didn't tell people to change their video cards or OSes to downgrade to DX9. I was telling Hunter two things 1) that it's not just "Vista doesn't work", there are a few details here and 2) that fixing it might require more than a Jedi-style waive of hand.

Insert another shameless plug for OpenSourcing CMBB here. What's to lose? If you do, then no competitor can ever follow the CM line because the first stage is commercially dead and BFC are the only ones in the second stage. Scorched Earth tactics at their finest.

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

Originally posted by Redwolf:

... Insert another shameless plug for OpenSourcing CMBB here. What's to lose? If you do, then no competitor can ever follow the CM line because the first stage is commercially dead and BFC are the only ones in the second stage. Scorched Earth tactics at their finest. [/QB]

I beg to differ, releasing CM code won't break competition per se, it can just break commercial imitation... Not necessarily a bad thing, it helps moving forward instead of copying to death.

And there's another solution, look at what happened to SP code : it was given to SPCamo and Matrix guys, both made semi-free expansions/upgrades, and sold them. Gaming-wise it was rather successfull, as for sales I don't know but the guys kept working on it for very long.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Redwolf:

... Insert another shameless plug for OpenSourcing CMBB here. What's to lose? If you do, then no competitor can ever follow the CM line because the first stage is commercially dead and BFC are the only ones in the second stage. Scorched Earth tactics at their finest.

I beg to differ, releasing CM code won't break competition per se, it can just break commercial imitation... Not necessarily a bad thing, it helps moving forward instead of copying to death.

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