Column of march lenght

[Valera]

What about column of march lenght?

Let's take a 50m interval between tanks and 7m full tank lenght. Then tank battalion with 50 tanks will about 2850 meter lenght of march column.

Operation tile is 2 x 2 km square.

Then even a tank battalion doesn't find room enough.

[Sergei]

What if the road is very curvy? It is the duty of map makers to make the road sections on each map long enough to accomodate full strength tank battalions.

[Ike]

According to "Unit Organizations of World War II", published in 1976 by Z&M Enterprises, edited by D. Myers (whoever they all are), the 1944 Soviet tank battalion in the Tank Brigades was made up of two companies of 10 tanks each plus one tank in the Bn Hq. In the narrative for this formation, the companies were composed of three platoons of three tanks each, plus one more for the company Hq. I am entirely certain that this was not necessarily the composition of Soviet tank units (above company level) for the entire period of the war, but it is the information I have in printed reference.

So, given your intervals and tank sizes as being correct for the time and place (and I have no reason to doubt your information there) the tank battalion with 21 tanks would cover about 1,140 meters in single file. If the roadway was broad enough, I would think a staggered double-file colum would have been the practice, giving about 570 meters for the column's length. Add a bit for some trucks and "jeeps" and miscellaneous vehicles, the battalion in single-file road column could be estimated at around 1,200 meters; double-file at 600 meters.

[Bigduke6]

Ike,

Your numbers on compaies are quite right for a generic tank battalion 1943 - 45. There were three battalions in a brigade (and a regiment too, usually), so the typical tank brigade - TOE - had 65 tanks (3 x 21 + 2 at brigade HQ).

The typical Soviet road column was nose-to-tail, in part because that's less complicated for the drivers, and in part because 1940s East Europe didn't have so many roads you can put a pair of medium tanks down side-by-side.

I don't know the regulation vehicle distances in a road column (any one out there?), but the films that I have seen show T-34s zooming down the autobahn at about 3-4 vehicle length intervals. A T-34/85 is about 7.5 meters long.

So, theoretically, for a full-strength battalion rumbling down a good road, that's 157.5 meters of road space taken up by the tanks, and if I am calculating things right and have doped out the right number of intervals (19) between 427.5 and 570 meters worth of intervals. So I get a paper-length column between 585 and 727.5 meters long.

That's in theory. In practice the Red Army was a bit, ah, more open-minded (the uncharitable would say sloppier) than other armies in some things, and I strongly suspect this aspect of road march discipline was one of them.

My guess, they would stick as close together as possible to avoid the accordian effect, and they would prefer the accordian effect over leaving some dumb tank sergeant to figure out where to lead the tail of the column. I bet on most roads at most times the distance was less than a half kilometer, and once you take casualties into effect a lot closer to 300 meters.

[Ike]

Another potential factor for WW2 Soviet armored formations is simply that only one in three had radios - probably fewer in the field after a week's worth of being bounced around - so the tank commanders would want to be close enough to see where the one in front goes since radios were scarce and - as pre-war field maneuvers showed - signal flags weren't the answer either. Yes, the driver could see, but only a narrow slice - depending on the vehicle, I understand that part - but the TC wants to feel in control and it's yelling at the driver that feeds the TC's desire to be in control. Sort of psychological, but I think a real factor nonetheless. What am I trying to say? Closer intervals between vehicles was likely, closer than 50 meters and closer than whatever the books and manuals said. Which is what Bigduke6 said. Oh, was that a battalion or brigade road march?

[Sergei]

What about German columns?

[Hunter]

Originally posted by Sergei:

What if the road is very curvy? It is the duty of map makers to make the road sections on each map long enough to accomodate full strength tank battalions.

LOL

[Ardem]

But being a operation, how many units would be in column march for long. I see only reinforcements or units which are to switch flanks to be involved in such column marches.

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by Ike:

Another potential factor for WW2 Soviet armored formations is simply that only one in three had radios -

Only during 41 and the first half of 42 - by mid 42 all T34's & KV's had radios - some light tanks probably still lacked them.

By the end of 43 all tanks had radios.

[Ike]

Travelling cross-country for extended combat operations without sufficient maintenance or logistical support is a guarantee of being in the communication status of "not too many radios working". That is true of any army's vehicles, in any war, in any era with both radios and motorized armored fighting vehicles. How much logistical and maintenance support is "sufficient"? Good question and the answer is: enough to keep 90%+ of the unit's built-in radios working. (laugh) Sorry; I couldn't resist the joke. But the real world point is the same. The Germans were no better off: at the beginning of the war, since they'd planned for there to be at least an armistice by December or January '42 at the latest, there wasn't enough winter uniforms, winterized equipment, etc. And believe me, once the logistics and maintenance are no longer "sufficient", everyone's radios go "ka-put!", which shortens road march columns among other "minor tactical adjustments" from the drill book.

But I'm sure you're correct in the proportion of radio-equipped Soviet tanks by the mid-war years. No offense to you intended: my point is simply that field conditions tend to destroy the most "modern" equipment because it is the most likely to require regular constant repair or cleaning or something like that and is the least likely to get it.

[Valera]

Originally posted by Sergei:

What about German columns?

Guderian wrote that Germans tank column have got a 50m interval if German got Air Superiority and 100m without AS.

Lenght of Tank Division march column about 15km

[Bigduke6]

Ike,

That was a full-strength battalion I was crunching numbers for. 21 vehicles.

On the radios, just for the record the Soviets said their vehicle radios were high-quality and that the equipment was more rugged, and required less maintenance, than Lend Lease stuff. I have no idea if that's true. On the one hand the Soviets lied a lot, but on the other hand they said the T-34 was a great tank, and it was.

There are more than a few examples of Soviet tank platoons running almost nose-to-tail like rats on the battlefield, so I would assume keeping proper distance was also not a huge priority during the road marches.

Looking at things from the Soviet TC/battalion commander point of view, if you keep a good distance and the march column breaks up and part of it gets lost, that's your fault and you are subject to Red Army discipline, and maybe even the penalty battalion. But if you stick close and become a close air casualty, that's the air defense boys fault, and you can't get in trouble for that!

[ November 13, 2005, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Bigduke6 ]