Unit Names?

[Portero]

I never really liked the "A,B,C,D Company" designations in CMBB...especially if the scenario briefing called you commander of 4./II./62IR/7ID. I was always dissapointed with the generic names once the game opened up. I would find this even more dissapointing/confusing in CMC. Having the CMC names match the CMBB names would provide greater continuity and atmosphere IMHO.

For instance, if an ME consisting of I./62IR attacks a Soviet position, it would be cool if CMBB opened with the Batt HQ labeled I./62IR and the company's listed as 1. Kompanie, 2. Kompanie, 3. Kompanie, 4. Kompanie, rather than ABCD. I am using German designations as an example, but Soviet designations would likewise add greatly. Any other players think the same?

[zmoney]

Portero said

For instance, if an ME consisting of I./62IR attacks a Soviet position, it would be cool if CMBB opened with the Batt HQ labeled I./62IR and the company's listed as 1. Kompanie, 2. Kompanie, 3. Kompanie, 4. Kompanie, rather than ABCD

Isn't that basically the same thing. I mean whats the defference between calling a company, company A and company 1. Or Aco Bco Cco versus 1 2 3.

Plus I dont know how other countries do it but in the US our companies are labeled with letters such as Aco or Bco. Numbers are usually used for platoons and squads.

The /62IR you reffer to probly stands for sixty second infantry regiment. So 3/62/4ID stands for 3rd Battalion 62 Regiment of the 4th Infantry Division.

So in conclusion I see no reason to change the way it is now because the way it is now is realistic.

[Portero]

Originally posted by zmoney:

Isn't that basically the same thing. I mean whats the defference between calling a company, company A and company 1. Or Aco Bco Cco versus 1 2 3.

Plus I dont know how other countries do it but in the US our companies are labeled with letters such as Aco or Bco. Numbers are usually used for platoons and squads.

The /62IR you reffer to probly stands for sixty second infantry regiment. So 3/62/4ID stands for 3rd Battalion 62 Regiment of the 4th Infantry Division.

So in conclusion I see no reason to change the way it is now because the way it is now is realistic. [/QB]

My example was somewhat poor...I apologize. Say my ME was II. Bataillon, 62. Infanterie Regiment. It would consist of 5. Kompanie, 6. Kompanie, 7. Kompanie, and 8. Kompanie. In normal CMBB, these company's would be listed starting with Aco, Bco, Cco, Dco. However, even if using a letter format these company's should really be listed as Eco, Fco, Gco, and Hco. In that way you would automatically understand that these company's belong in the second Battalion as opposed to first or third. Using nation specific names would add greatly to the atmosphere IMHO, but aren't neccessary. The more important thing is to differentiate your ME's on the CMBB battlefield. I hope I added some clarification.....

[Hunter]

The Editor can set the names to be historical as per your example.

Hunter

[Portero]

Originally posted by Hunter:

The Editor can set the names to be historical as per your example.

Hunter

Outstanding! Thank you very much for the answer, Hunter.

[Schrullenhaft]

I think a bit of clarification may be due here.

I believe that the CMC editor and game will show the designation of the unit as you would like. However once in CMBB I don't think it will be using that designation. CMBB will continue to use the A, B, C, D designations of the companies, etc.

I don't think that there are going to be any really noticeable changes to CMBB for CMC. As far as I can ascertain from what's been said so far, the only modifications that will be made are ones that will affect how CMC works. Hunter will probably know more details about what Charles has changed or is willing to change for CMC, but I don't think that this particular feature will exist within CMBB.

[Portero]

Originally posted by Schrullenhaft:

I think a bit of clarification may be due here.

I believe that the CMC editor and game will show the designation of the unit as you would like. However once in CMBB I don't think it will be using that designation. CMBB will continue to use the A, B, C, D designations of the companies, etc.

I don't think that there are going to be any really noticeable changes to CMBB for CMC. As far as I can ascertain from what's been said so far, the only modifications that will be made are ones that will affect how CMC works. Hunter will probably know more details about what Charles has changed or is willing to change for CMC, but I don't think that this particular feature will exist within CMBB.

I sure hope this is not true. I had read in a previous thread that CMC keeps track of every soldier so that losses are accurately distributed. It seems that the same could be done of units also..... :confused:

[Renaud]

I am pretty certain that the CMBB-scale units will be no more customizable than they are now. You will have your custom CMC ME name, but CMBB will be the same.

Hardly a big concern, at least for me.

[Hunter]

CMC sets the name of the unit, so if you want to call them 4 Company rather than D company, that is up to the editor.

[Sailor Malan]

Originally posted by Hunter:

CMC sets the name of the unit, so if you want to call them 4 Company rather than D company, that is up to the editor.

Sorry to be dense: do you mean that the unit in CMBB will carry the name across from CMC (even though each squad will be a sub ubit, and hence not the ME in CMC?

Example: ME is I company, 1st Btn, 619 Gds rifle regt (so you can name it that in the CMC editor yes?)

When it is in combat, what are the squads called (or for that matter, what is the 'A' unit called) in CMBB

[Portero]

Originally posted by Hunter:

CMC sets the name of the unit

I'm guessing the name CMC gives units must transfer to CMBB then.

[Ardem]

That is possible if they have access to the CMBB code to drop in the unit name field.

--------------------------------

Currently in CMBB we only have the option to change the officer name field.

So I think the question being asked is, are the field names such as unit name, officer rank field and Company field, will CMC overwrite these defaults, that come from the CMBB editor.

Or are you just using the officer field to designate units and descriptions. Also i found the Officer field limiting, will you be providing a new gui for CMBB to display the extra lengths in any name changes?

[BigDog944]

I imagine that the main piece (only piece?) of coding that Charles has done in CMBB is to allow CMBB to import scenario files that CMC has created (and the reverse, CMBB will be able to export the detailed end of battle results back to CMC). Given that the CMBB editor already allows you to create a battle with 'over-ridden' unit names, it means that the unit names are encoded in the battle file format, not assigned randomly at runtime. I'd take this to mean that the CMBB battles created will have the CMC unit names intact.

What would be really nice is if that battle file import/results export interface were openly published at some point in the future. Something in a nice XML format, please! Think of the user community mods and campaign engines that would be possible!

Not likely until long after the commercial value of CMC has trended to nil, though!

By the way, Hunter... I know through years of personal experience that Python and wxPython are wonderful to code with! Excellent choice! I initially was wondering why not PyGame, but then I thought that the campaign editor of CMC would be far easier to code with the GUI components that wxPython gives you, rather than the minimal help you'd get from PyGame.

[Hunter]

Originally posted by BigDog944:

I imagine that the main piece (only piece?) of coding that Charles has done in CMBB is to allow CMBB to import scenario files that CMC has created (and the reverse, CMBB will be able to export the detailed end of battle results back to CMC). Given that the CMBB editor already allows you to create a battle with 'over-ridden' unit names, it means that the unit names are encoded in the battle file format, not assigned randomly at runtime. I'd take this to mean that the CMBB battles created will have the CMC unit names intact.

What would be really nice is if that battle file import/results export interface were openly published at some point in the future. Something in a nice XML format, please! Think of the user community mods and campaign engines that would be possible!

Not likely until long after the commercial value of CMC has trended to nil, though!

By the way, Hunter... I know through years of personal experience that Python and wxPython are wonderful to code with! Excellent choice! I initially was wondering why not PyGame, but then I thought that the campaign editor of CMC would be far easier to code with the GUI components that wxPython gives you, rather than the minimal help you'd get from PyGame.

Yes, we use PyGame, but needed wx for the complex GUI we require. You have summarised exactly the process we went through.

[Schrullenhaft]

Sorry to be obstinate about this subject, but...

Given that the CMBB editor already allows you to create a battle with 'over-ridden' unit names ...

The "'over-ridden' unit name" is called a "special name" within the CMBB editor and it is actually the commanding officer's/NCO's name and not the actual unit designation. For example by using the 'special name' for the HQ of a formation you can change that CO/SNCO's name from "Major Heinz" to "Major I./62IR", but the formation information will remain as before (i.e. - "HQ, Ind." or "HQ, A Co", etc.). CMBB presents the info in this manner (an example of a battalion HQ renamed):

MAJ I./62IRHQ,IND.BATTALION HQ

So, technically, the formation name does remain the 'generic' that CMBB assigns. However the 'special name' system can work, with the CO/NCO's name being replaced with the formation name, there just won't be a name to associate with the CO/NCO of the unit.

Unless I misunderstand what has changed in the CMBB executable, this is what I see as being available

[ November 04, 2005, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Philippe]

This is not really a CMC question, but how do you go about using umlauts and other German letters in the CMBB game editor ? I've seen a few scenarios where this has been done, and can't figure out how to do it short of re-mapping my keyboard before going into the editor. I suspect the scenarios were done by someone who has a German language computer (as opposed to some of us who have no-language computers).

This is almost a relevant bit of CMC trivia, because it would be nice to have a Captain Mueller with a u and an umlaut, or a German street name with an s-zed instead of a double ss. Very useful for Fall of Berlin campaigns and for German names in general. I'm assuming that if you can be linguistically authentic in CMC, this will get picked up in CMBB.

I also wish that it were possible to have non-standard military rank names appear where appropriate, like Commissar Popov or Unterbahnbautruppenfuehrer Schmidt. And alternate wav files that would use the correct nomenclature for non-Wehrmacht troops...

[CMX2 Borg]

The power of the Collective is growing...

We recently aCMilated Oberführer Göthering of the jägerbattaillon at Großkirchen....

[ November 04, 2005, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: CMX2 Borg ]

[Philippe]

And what's infuriating is that I know how to do that in Word or a textfile, but am clueless when it comes to the Scenario Editor.

[Schrullenhaft]

I don't know the exact numbers for the specific characters, but it seems it should be possible.

Within CM while trying to modify a name, press the Alt key and hold it down. While holding that key down type out a number on the numeric keypad (the numbers above the letters may not work). Again, I'm not sure how the characters map out, it will probably take a bit of experimentation. The maximum 'number' is is possibly 128, with anything above that repeating some previous characters.

The Character Map utility will give you the hexidecimal code for a character (the "0xab" you see listed, with the 'ab' the hexidecimal number). Using the Scientific Mode of the Windows calculator and setting it to 'Hex' mode you can convert the number to its decimal equivalent by clicking on the 'Dec' radio button. So with the 'Courier' font selected you can find the hexidecimal equivalent. Unfortunately CM doesn't seem to use the same mappings, so experimenting with the Alt + keypad number seems to be the only way to find these characters.

Unfortunately trying this out myself I didn't come across any non-standard characters that aren't on an English keyboard. The characters that are in the 0.bmp, 1.bmp & 2.bmp files show what characters are available in CM, but I haven't seen any using the Alt+'number' input that goes beyond the tilde (~) character show in the bitmaps. The remaining characters seem inaccessible. There must be some sort of hexidecimal code that CM is referencing to display them. Maybe the English version doesn't allow for the input of these characters, while the European versions have keyboard input code to match the hexidecimal codes to input these characters (as you guessed earlier).

[ November 04, 2005, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Sergei]

You can't add names (or write labels on maps) that have umlauts or such. However, they are possible for names included on the hardcoded lists for each nation, which I think Philippe saw.