Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
RommL

Why not...

Recommended Posts

I am going to jump into this Broo-haha and just ask for a general roadmap and a question.

1. So it looks like US vs German Normandy (main game) and then allies (Poles, Brits, Canucks) add on module (2 in this series)

2. Possibly Eastern Front (Citadel and then modules for ??? maybe Bagration or some like)

3. ???

I know I haved asked in the past but what about Korea 1950-1951? It has tanks, Americans and N Koreans (with already modeled Russian equipment) for the first game, then Allies (Brits, Ausies and Canucks) and Chinese for the additional module. I have spent some time there and the natural terrain was not that much different from what would be experienced in the Bulge campaign (fir trees, snow...)

I personally would want Eastern front (1940 - 1945) Finns, USSR, Germans, Axis minors and then Italy but that will never come to pass. And with CMBB/CMAK reaching the end of its life (Vista and DX 10) I will need a fix to replace it. - What I am going to do with the 2 extra copies of CMBB and CMAK that are sitting on my shelf?? (I had 5 each at one time but have managed to convince 3 other people to start playing).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I read the tea leaves:

Originally posted by Canada Guy:

1. So it looks like US vs German Normandy (main game) and then allies (Poles, Brits, Canucks) add on module (2 in this series)

2. Possibly Eastern Front (Citadel and then modules for ??? maybe Bagration or some like)

3. ???

1. Yes

1a. Yes, the Commonwealth but also more German troop types and vehicles. With the U.S. you have fewer main vehicle types so they'll be easier to create the 3-d models once you've built one Sherman etc.

With the Germans you have a lot more base types requiring more work hence we'll get German vehicles spread over more than one module.

Also I don't think they guaranteed Poles with 1A but maybe they'll use existing voice files from CMX 1 games.

1B will probably expand it to more US/UK/German

troops and vehicles to cover fighting through Sept. '44 including Market-Garden.

For WWII game 2,no one's sure yet. I think Eastfront is more likely for WWII game 3.

WWII game 2 could be Bulge or Invasion of Germany.

Or we might see Invasion of Germany by the Western Allies as 1c.

But what do I know :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About popularity vs. sales... to us they aren't any different. Longevity is what BiAlMoho is talking about and that's something separate. By definition sales and popularity are linked. CMBO was therefore more popular than CMBB, CMBB more popular than CMAK. Otherwise the sales wouldn't have been the way they were. But which game is being played by more people years later? Probably CMBB. That makes it a longer lived title, not a more popular one. There can be lots of reasons for that, such as there being a slew of Western Front games and almost no Eastern Front ones, therefore the pool of players is less diluted for CMBB than CMBO. Etc.

And what this has to do with anything is beyond me :D

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct about the plethora of German stuff! We have no shortage of things to model for the Germans, so there will be significant additions to their forces (not just vehicles either) with each Module. In the end I wouldn't be surprised if we actually have more stuff for the Normandy time period than we had in CMBO. There were all kinds of things that were found only in the dozens that we did not simulate in CMBO that we might wind up adding eventually.

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BigAlMoho
Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

And what this has to do with anything is beyond me :D

Steve

Seemingly... Sorry to interrupt the discussion...

(I am outa here before I get started about logic, dialectic, sophistry and spin)...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why CMAK was not so popular?

There was US troops and also other good guys Commonwealth troops and North Africa is quite legendary battefield with Rommel, Montgomery and Patton and also Italy with Monte Cassino and other quite famous battles.

The Med as battlefield is not so familiar to Americans as Brits maybe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sequoia has hit the main point. However, the desert theater holds less appeal than either the Western Front or the Eastern Front. At least overall, probably not in the British market. So it was a combo of the least popular theater coupled with the most amount of age on the engine. If we had sold less we wouldn't have been surprised. More, on the other hand, would have sent us into shock :D

BigAlMoho... still don't know what your point is. I don't care one bit who is still playing each of the CMx1 games since by all rights nobody should. If there was more money in it for me then maybe I would care, but since there isn't I'd be a fool to. People playing a 5 year old game vs. a 7 year old game doesn't matter when the mortgage bill comes in the mailbox ;)

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think Korea could be #3 as it has everything that is required for a successful game in the US (American troops) and the ominous bad guys (Chinese and N Koreans) as well as sidekicks (Brits, Canadians and Turks)

Once the work is done on the men and models though, I am assumong that it will be easier to release each successive Game. If a PzIV is modeled in Game 2, that same model could be used in Game 3 etc. This would also allow for the terrain tiles (like snow, fir tees etc.) being re-used. I am only guessing but it would seem that once the WWII game wagon gets rolling, it should be easier for Charles, Steve, Rune et al, to get on a more regular and timely release schedule. (Terrain from SMSF et al., units/sides from Normandy et al and you have yourself an operation Torch in the making)

This leads to things like a Korean War game (which I am only using as an example) being easier to code for as almost all the work will have been done in previous modules.

Any thoughts? Though looking at these forums, I would think about keeping this close to my chest. If Game X is coming out before Game Y or Game Z, there will be someone that will complain (like me ;) )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope the Brits sent Centurion to Korea so unless there is some “Second World War is over but here are some nice vehicles anyway” module to try and reproduce say Patton going East beyond the Elbe, the Brits at least wont be properly represented.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Yeah, according to the numbers we didn't sell much in Russia at all because at the time piracy was the norm. It's much better now, however the price point is much lower than other places so it's not an apples to apples comparison. Now, Finland... that's another story. I think 1 in 3 CMBB players was Finnish :D (OK, maybe that's stretching it a bit!).

And we demand more soviets to shoot at, dammit!

IMO it's enough reason to see ostfront as more interesting as the war in europe was decided there..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you couldn’t have been doing too good a job since they won. smile.gif

Personally I don’t care two hoots about the Ost Front, but that’s just “IMO”.

Of course that should stop it being made, just means I probably wont buy it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PTO is not on the horizon. It's a tough sell for people. Yup... Americans galore, but very little armor and an enemy force that most people think of as a static suicide force with antiquated weapons. Look at the crap we've taken for having the Syrians be the opposition force, then think about all the cool tanks and weaponry they have, and I think you might understand why we're not planning on simulating the PTO anytime in the near future. That's not to say we'll never do it, but it isn't anything we've made a development slot for.
:'(

pretty please, with a cherry on top? two cherries? and a cookie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BigAlMoho
Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

BigAlMoho... still don't know what your point is.

Steve

My original comment was meant point out to rune that Cid250's comment that CMBB is more popular than CMBO has merit with us fans of the game from a player's point of view... Now you step in to tell me that you don't care what is popular with players but rather you only care about what puts money in your pocket... Well you've already made that extremely clear and it doesn't need repeating and has little to do with the opinions of us consumers... I mean, are we supposed to say: "Steve and Co. sold more copies of CMBO so that is my favorite?

So, my point is that CMBB is probably more popular with those of us that spent thousands of hours playing CM1 and CMBO is more popular with those few that value the sales figures more than the wargaming experience...

It's too bad if you still don't get my point,

Al

p.s. I think it is clear that you are no longer the fellow wargamer that you used to seem to be and that now it seems that you have become the corporate sell-out that you used to seem to despise... Try to remember: GAME + PLAYER = SALES...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BigAlMoho,

Me thinks you need to take a few deep breaths and actually think about what I've posted instead of emotionally reacting to it. Let's try again, shall we?

My original comment was meant point out to rune that Cid250's comment that CMBB is more popular than CMBO has merit with us fans of the game from a player's point of view...
And you ignored Rune's perfectly logical response, which is that popularity is reflected by how many people buy into the concept, not how long they buy into it for. That's the generally accepted definition of popularity so I fail to see why you have the right to toss that aside so casually.

Now you step in to tell me that you don't care what is popular with players but rather you only care about what puts money in your pocket...
Hey, I like the fact that people are still playing our games years longer than most. But tell me why I should care one bit, even a little bit, if one of those groups (in your mind the CMBB group) is playing to more than antother group (CMBO or CMAK)?

I mean, are we supposed to say: "Steve and Co. sold more copies of CMBO so that is my favorite?
Er... no. I mean, if this were true then why would I have said:

"I personally think the Eastern Front is the more interesting theater to simulate. If we didn't care about pleasing people or income I'd be pushing to go to the Eastern Front before Normandy."

on the previous page? I've also said many times that IMHO CMBB is the best of the three games by far. So why on Earth would I want you to say that CMBO should be your favorite?

So, my point is that CMBB is probably more popular with those of us that spent thousands of hours playing CM1 and CMBO is more popular with those few that value the sales figures more than the wargaming experience...
Holy crap... are you Western Front fans reading this? Apparently you only like the Western Front because it sells better. In other words, Al thinks you are a "fake wargamer" and don't deserve the time of day from a "real wargamer". Man, that's about a bigoted remark as I've seen here in a long time, and that's saying something.

p.s. I think it is clear that you are no longer the fellow wargamer that you used to seem to be and that now it seems that you have become the corporate sell-out that you used to seem to despise...
sigh... the tired old "you aren't doing what I want you to do, therefore you're a sell out" argument. I don't see why giving the majority of wargamers the game they want first, before the others, is "selling out". Well, other than the apparent fact that you think that anybody who doens't worship the Eastern Front isn't a wargamer.

BTW, if I were a "sell out" I am a really dumb one. Most game developers think of wargaming as a thankless, aggrivating, under compensated slice of the game industry that almost nobody wants to touch with a 10' pole. And those are the ones that see the upside of this niche :D So if I really wanted to "sell out" I should redouble my efforts since I'm doing such a poor job of it.

Try to remember: GAME + PLAYER = SALES...
Yup, which is why we're not making the Eastern Front right now. WESTERN FRONT GAME + A TON MORE PLAYERS THAN EASTERN FRONT = A LOT MORE SALES. So you are in effect telling me what I already know.

Al, I have to ask. Why is it more valuable to us that someone has been playing a game for 5 years solid instead of just 4 years when we saw $45 from each and both have received years more gameplay than they paid for (based on industry standards)? Both are happy, satistfied customers far beyond what other games deliver. I can't see any reason why one should be more valuable to us than the other. Please explain.

Plus, I don't see why you're getting all bent out of shape in any case. This "sell out" you're slamming is going to make you an Eastern Front game eventually (I guess I'll be an "unsell out" at that point?), so what's the point of trying to tick me off?

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

I don't care one bit who is still playing each of the CMx1 games since by all rights nobody should. If there was more money in it for me then maybe I would care, but since there isn't I'd be a fool to. People playing a 5 year old game vs. a 7 year old game doesn't matter when the mortgage bill comes in the mailbox ;)

Steve

Yeah, but what if it did?

What if you could (financially) tap into the fact that the CM games are played for years and years?

An example: Let's imagine by the time the last CM:SF title is out, the US Army puts Trophy active defenses on all its Abrams, Bradleys and Strykers (it could very well happen).

I'd very much like to have that Trophy system on my CM:SF vehicles. But if you do that for me, you're just being nice and throwing company money out the window.

But what if there was an economic reward? What if BFC could get paid through subscriptions and/or microtransactions to gradually and continuously add features and content to the games?

Stardock (Sins of a Solar Empire) thinks so, which is why they've announced the Impulse digital distribution system.

I highly recommend you read this interview with Stardock's Brad Wardell from gamasutra.com

Seriously, you need to read the interview. It could very well be the future of independent game development and could turn the longevity of CMx games into a source of income.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

We have no shortage of things to model for the Germans, so there will be significant additions to their forces (not just vehicles either) with each Module.

They're adding horses, they're adding horses!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Panzerkampfhorses with 88? With horseshoes made of finest Krupp's steel.

Now that we have had our vehicleborneIEDs ,could we have tankdestoyer dogs too, with very fuzzy-behaving TacAI? It's eastern front thing sure, but there's lack of animals in CM-series, so this one could make it to Normandy aswell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Secondbrooks,

Was just reading about mine dogs in Suvorov's SPETSNAZ. There's a picture of a mine dog and his handler just prior to Kursk, and Suvorov describes the much more powerful and fuzing sophisticated version in SPETSNAZ use circa 1980s. Two birds with one stone!

Regards,

John Kettler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by John Kettler:

Secondbrooks,

Was just reading about mine dogs in Suvorov's SPETSNAZ. There's a picture of a mine dog and his handler just prior to Kursk, and Suvorov describes the much more powerful and fuzing sophisticated version in SPETSNAZ use circa 1980s. Two birds with one stone!

Regards,

John Kettler

Minenhunde would be great! Running all over the place and blowing up sh.. erm, "stuff" left, right and center. Should make for some hilarious AAR's :D

Their inclusion would always be a secondary priority after the E-100, obviously...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BigAlMoho
Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

BigAlMoho,

Let's try again, shall we?

Steve

No, I made my point clearly...

p.s. Would you please ban me so that I won't be tempted to post here anymore...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...