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Runyan99

Marine Module as Referendum

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I noticed too that the posts have slowed down a lot. Sadly, many of the new posts ask about things like when is this going to be fixed or what should I look for in the next patch.

Over on the Blitz.org gaming club, last month there were over 500 CMx1 games between players logged while CMSF had less than 10, I think it was 6. Yikes. That is a shock considering the hype around this game when it launched.

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Spent weeks going back and forth as to weather to get the game or not, bought it and have played once.Want to play but have no interest in fighting the syrian or as the Syrians.Now put top line russian equipment in and I will def buy .

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I loved the game and persevered thru the bugs and glitches but the biggest downer for me is the groundhog day battles.

It needs more units and better red forces. I really have a hope that 1.05 adds some much needed polish to revive this game.

If 1.05 is a good patch then I firmly intend to buy the modules as they are released. If it's not I will pass.

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Well, from where I stand, CM SF seems to be a fiasco. If not short term, then long term. They have lost a lot of supporters and faith with this release. But since BTS keeps talking about how great CM SF is compard to CMx1, I guess they must be happy.

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I'm playing this game more than anything else since early CMx1, and loving it.

Yes, it was released too early. Yes, there are still some bugs. Yes, to an extent we've been play testers. But in BF's defence, it's already been said, they don't have the resources that more commercial games companies do to fully test out the product before release, and they were contractually obliged to publish by a certain date, regardless.

I know from my days in the publishing world, that publisher's/distributor's schedules are very tight. You are pressed to deliver your product (in my case novels) by a specific date, and once that date is agreed it's very difficult to alter it without setting it back an unacceptably long time, even if you are not entirely happy with what you've got. I published books that I would ideally have liked to spend another couple of months working on, but the deadline said no.

Following that, look how much work BF have already done - and are continuing to do - on Shock Force. Unlike a book, a computer game/simulation, CAN be further developed AFTER release, if the team behind it is dedicated enough to do it. These guys are, even though they're effectively not being paid for it, at least in the short term.

In the long term, I see this game engine, eventually sleek and polished, delivering some really exciting products, be it add-ons to modern warfare, WWII, or something else.

In the meantime, even though the idea of Syria initially didn't appeal, I'm having a great time discovering what both SF and modern warfare are all about, and simultaeously looking forward mightily to what's down the road.

And yes, I will look very seriously at the Marines Moduel and any other expansion packs that may appear, and will almost certainly buy them. There's nothing else that I'm aware of that comes close.

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Neither, TC. I'm just having fun with a great computer wargame that keeps improving. I'm sorry if you're not finding the same, but it's definitely in there for anyone who wants to take the time to play it.

If the fun stops coming, I'll be gone. That's the only (unstated, but I would say mutually understood) contract I have with any company that provides any form of entertainment that I can engage with.

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Sadly, you can probably count me as another low(ish) number that won't be interested in any modules. Between "not getting it", and the forum's Huntarr (sixx)killer team I guess it's time to move on.

Ah well, as the old saying goes...excrement doth occur.

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I find myself drawn back to CM1 time and time again. It's an excellent simulation but also very far from perfect.

CMSF is also a considerable achievment, with a number of serious shortcomings. However GENERALLY, ALL THE FUNDEMENTALS ARE THERE! Bugs? Sure as hell. Unuseable? Only to pendants. Basically serious folks can use it for good games and proffessional education.

Marine UK or Space Lobster modules, will just add systems to the game. If those are modeled accurately, then this adds a dimension!

ADDITIONS IN TERRAIN ARE FAR MORE IMPORANT! - They will alter the game!

Water, bridges, modern city infastructure, etc etc.

If you just want to see an LAV-25 running around, buy RC model!!

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Sadly I'm also pretty disappointed. I feel this game is more a 3-D version of Close Combat then the advancement of Combat Mission. I know under the hood it is vastly superior to CM-1 but I don't think visually it plays out that well. I had concerns about realtime and one to one soldiers but I thought BFC could pull it off. I admit the one to one is not bad especially with the floating icons to help find the two pixel troopers off in the distance but it does seem the underlying grid doesn't match up due to realtime necessities.

Overall I just think WEGO is too handicapped by the necessities of realtime and really just comes off as an after thought and a hindrance. I will always wonder what this game could of been if it stayed foremost a WEGO game. (Not meant to start a RT/WEGO debate)

I guess I'm just out of luck.

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To me the problem's not about WeGo/RT, graphics, or anything other than the problems with LoS/LoF. I don't see how you can play with any sort of realistic tactics when you can shoot and be shot at through mountains and walls.

The fact that this is still such a problem after all the patches, followed by BFC's almost complete silence since 1.04 leads me to believe that these issues may never be resolved.

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DzrtFox,

Oh I agree LOS/LOF is probably the biggest problem along with pathfinding and TAI, but I suspect (I don't presume to know the coding) it is in large part because of RT limitations. If not for RT could we have a 4m grid or even a 2m grid. Could each soldier be tracked for LOS instead of apparently the leader or midpoint or whatever. Yeah it might take more time to compute but for more accurate results I don't mind. I just thought the CM concept worked great with the limiting factor being how fast you can draw an accurate scene. Not how fast you can draw an accurate scene, calculate TAI, calculate proper LOS, track every bullet ect...

But to go back to the topic I do hope a marine module makes it better especially for WEGO in which case I would buy it to support BFC. But in general I'm one who wanted a better CM-1 but feel I got CC3D instead and thats just not going to change with this engine.

I also wonder, being I built a high end PC just for this game, what it is going to take to properly run CMWWII in hedgerow country.

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Originally posted by Harv:

Sadly, you can probably count me as another low(ish) number that won't be interested in any modules.

+1 (from a somewhat lowish number! :D )

However, I am hoping all the bugs will be eradicted when the CMX2 WW2 module is released. I haven't bought CMSF and I have no plans to buy the marine module at this time (the game bugs worry but the main reason is that i'm not interested in the game setting).

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To me I don't even care what the setting is. I know I'm a broken record here, but what is the point of trying to maneuver your men (no matter what era) when they can be shot at when they should be unseen? It totally destroys any sense of control or purpose for me.

I'm genuinely hoping that we aren't required to buy a module to fix game-breaking problems that should have never shipped with the game (yet are still here months after release). I will almost definitely buy any module that comes out if these problems to the core engine are fixed... But I want to see them fixed in CM:SF before I spend another dime on something related to it.

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Originally posted by DzrtFox:

I'm genuinely hoping that we aren't required to buy a module to fix game-breaking problems that should have never shipped with the game

Whoop, there it is!

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Infantry behavior has been the breaker for me. I play a lot of games as Syrian SF, and in that you NEED precise control of your men - if 5 guys hop out of a trench you wanted them to move along in a defensive engagement, they are dead in about 5 seconds from enemy fire.

Basically, I'm running out of things to complain about. Fix LoS/LoF and infantry behavior, and I'm one happy hombre.

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Well without a fully functioning random battle system with the ability to purchase units, I have zero interest in any SF add-on.

I would not be unhappy to hear BFC is going to drop any future add-on for SF and move on their WWII game.

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