Creature Zoo 4

[poesel]

Download from the usual place.

(short) Description:

removed in v4:~

Tempest IC~

Paladin IC~

Apollo IC (added 2 Thor IC for those)~

Paladin MC-L~

Thor KC-H (and added the numbers to the KC-Hm)~

~

changes to v3:~

Ariel KC-M: slighlty reduced armour & speed, increased accuracy, fixed twin shot, texture for barrels~

Ariel KC-h: slightly reduced armour, speed, rate of fire, accuracy, ammo~

Reduced number of mines,dragon teeth, Ariels~

Styx: improved speed and armour, fixed name~

Apollo KC-M4: decreased track acceleration~

Shrike ATM: improved road performance (so to say)~

Nebelwerfer: new launcher with textures (not finished)~

Sniper inf: less powerful sniper, only one sniper, RTO no ATG, added Rifleman

ATGM inf: fixed ATGM, new SAM gunner (low penetraion fast Missle (should only kill Viper and Dropship))~

There are no new vehicles in this version. Theres still quite some work in progress but I'm all for 'release early, release often'

There are some things I would like to hear feedback about:

- I replaced all Thor KC-Hs with KC-Hms because I would like to know if anyone uses the mortar or if I can drop this feature

- removed most ICs because they are IMHO useless

- Apollo KC-M4 as requested with reduced acceleration

- the Shrike ATM has got some modification to the chassis which is not very realistic but improves the drivability

Have fun!

[Bane]

Actually, I LIKED those chrome barrels on the Ariel KC-M! lol.

Thanks Poesel!

[Bane]

BTW.,Where is "the usual place"?

[Imperial Grunt]

Thanks Poesel!

[Phonan]

Originally posted by Bane:

BTW.,Where is "the usual place"?

Here it is.

[Toby Haynes]

Originally posted by poesel71:

There are some things I would like to hear feedback about:

- I replaced all Thor KC-Hs with KC-Hms because I would like to know if anyone uses the mortar or if I can drop this feature

- removed most ICs because they are IMHO useless

- Apollo KC-M4 as requested with reduced acceleration

- the Shrike ATM has got some modification to the chassis which is not very realistic but improves the drivability

Have fun!

Great stuff Poesel.

On the Thor Hm's - I've used them for great effect, partly to disorient an attacking enemy. Against the faster light vehicles they can be devastating. Landing one on the top of a Thor turret is also sufficient to blow the turret.

I seem to be one of the few people who deploys ICs - I like to use them in threes or fours, partly because they can be used as long-distance dropship killers. CZ only has 6-a-side which cramps the usage of IC a little as a result.

[Imperial Grunt]

OK, here is some whining now...The ATGM squad and the Sniper team is too weak. The sniper cannot kill anything, even with rear shots, unless around 10 hits are made, for example now you have to whittle Paladins down--alot. I shot several Thor turrets and Apollos from the rear with no effect. There is no longer any effect on Apollos from the side. I'll post a movie of an engagement with REDCON with my snipers versus his Paladin with a rocket launcher on it.

I understand that the effective range has been reduced to 1000m. That is a little short for a AT capable 20mm high-velocity sniper rifle. In my opinion, the 20mm HV round should have a little more range, alot more accuracy, and more AP capability than the standard 20mm AP round fired by the HMG. 3-5 side shots on a Paladin or Apollo at 2500m should be effective, 2-3 to the rear of a thor turret and apollo at 2500m should kill it (kill th e turret of the thor) in my opinion. As the range drops, then the effectiveness of the round should go up a little, but the HV round should quickly reach terminal velocity before it looses stability, making it richochet rather than penetrate.

The sides of Apollo turrets and Paladin turrets should be vulnerable to 3-5 good hits at 2500m. Rocket launchers and other "fragile" weapons systems not meant for direct combat should be even more vulnerable.

At 1000m, the 20mm HV round should have better effect, it is a ramped up 20mm AT round after all, and I imagine it as something like an iridium dart, with a small HE charge in the back (ala the Raufuss round).

The sniper magazine capacity maybe should be reduced to 50.

I do agree that engaging targets over 3000m and killing apollos with flank shots is too over powered. Is there a way to have the round's effectiveness peak at 2500m and then drop off quickly?

The ATGM squad rocket launchers look good and the squad design is great. Round counts are good. The HE (shouldn't they be HEAT) missiles themselves are underpowered. I hit an apollo 3 times with high-angle flank shots and only immobilized it. The bot had the courtesy to kill himself.

With the SAM missile it is very hard to target dropships. In my opinion, the SAM should have a target lock capability.

I noticed that sometimes the missiles seem to go hay-wire..what is that?

I will stop whining for the moment.

[ April 07, 2007, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Imperial Grunt ]

[poesel]

Ah, ok. Sorry for spoiling that tactic. So how many and which ICs do you want? And how many bots should there be?

I can change the number of bots easily and I think I can change the inventory without everyone having to re-download the mod.

Oh, and bane took it just 19 minutes between asking here and connecting to CZ...

[poesel]

IG overtook me here

The invulnerability of the rocket launcher is my fault. Its currently simply missing any internal components that are damageable.

Infantry ATGM can't lock on. Thats something Clay has to fix.

I'll promise I write an article for the Wiki which explains how armour and the various ammo types work. Short version: AP loses power with distance, HEAT/HE not.

[Imperial Grunt]

I double checked, the ATGM squads do have HEAT missiles, they are just way underpowered. I have nailed Thors from behind..no joy.

With the extra vehicles..infantry work is much harder, especially with bot special spotting and shooting. (Got 2 marines nailed mid-flight attacking a Apollo with a quad 76..amazing accuracy)

I have defaulted back to the trusty HMG squad since the ATGM and sniper squad are not that useful now.

[Redcon-5]

Originally posted by Imperial Grunt:

There is no longer any effect on Apollos from the side.I understand that the effective range has been reduced to 1000m. 3-5 side shots on a Paladin or Apollo at 2500m should be effective,

The sides of Apollo turrets and Paladin turrets should be vulnerable to 3-5 good hits at 2500m. Rocket launchers and other "fragile" weapons systems not meant for direct combat should be even more vulnerable.

I do agree that engaging targets over 3000m and killing apollos with flank shots is too over powered.

Allow me too disagree, but just a little bit, Yes the rifle is a little too week against the Thor Turret. And it does take 3-5 shots to kill, but other then that I guess this picture would qualify as still being too powerful

[Imperial Grunt]

Don't know how you did that with the new rifle! Great shot! You hit the sweet spot on the apollo's flank, but that shot might have feel under that 5% rule, where any munition has a 5% chance of killing a target, at any angle.

Actually I think we agree. The rifle in CZv3 was too powerful, especially at long range. I routinely killed Apollos and Paladins at over 3000m with just a few shots, sometimes just one. I was able to drive Nexus crazy one day.

The rifle does need to be adjusted, I just think it was adjusted down too far. In my opinion, the 20mm HV round should have superior performance over the standard 20mm AP round, so that should be the base from which to start from when determining the power of the sniper rifle. A 20mm HMG hits and penetrates Apollos and Paladins from the side at around 2000m (at that range your group is so wide only 1 round of the burst may hit). Rear shots at a little more. So the sniper rifle should be more effective than that, I propose 2500m, with much more accuracy. (Maybe Poesel can set up a 20mm penetration chart for us to use as a reference.)

I still think that the rear armor and back turret armor of a Thor should be vulnerable at around 3000m.

It looks like the model for the rifle was changed as well. Is it possible to bring back the bigger rifle? I thought it looked really cool!

[Redcon-5]

Originally posted by Imperial Grunt:

Don't know how you did that with the new rifle! Great shot! You hit the sweet spot on the apollo's flank,

Thank you and I always aim for the sweet spot.

I was able to drive Nexus crazy one day.

As if he wasnt enough already

I still think that the rear armor and back turret armor of a Thor should be vulnerable at around 3000m.

It is. It is just the killing power and fragmentation factor have been cut down.

It looks like the model for the rifle was changed as well. Is it possible to bring back the bigger rifle? I thought it looked really cool!

If it was it was an accident, it should be the same model but i might have sent poesel the wrong file.

[ April 09, 2007, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Redcon-5 ]

[Chilibird]

Originally posted by poesel71:

Infantry ATGM can't lock on. Thats something Clay has to fix.

IMHO, that's not a bad thing. Otherwise, we'd have infantry getting wayy too close, and locking on using their ATGM's from short range, resulting in more consistant kills (or possibly even avoiding AA screens)

The Ramses will hopefully be done for the next release, if I could figure out what the heck is up with the collision boxes. Has any of our modders had any success there, either?

[Redcon-5]

Originally posted by Chilibird:

The Ramses will hopefully be done for the next release, if I could figure out what the heck is up with the collision boxes. Has any of our modders had any success there, either?

I played with them a bit trying to make a different version of obstical. They seemed to work bots hit them and flipped over To be honest I was using collision triangles not boxes, in fact everything seems to work better as triangles and not boxes. Hope that helped somewhat.

[Imperial Grunt]

Originally posted by Redcon-5:

Allow me too disagree, but just a little bit, Yes the rifle is a little too week against the Thor Turret. And it does take 3-5 shots to kill, but other then that I guess this picture would qualify as still being too powerful

OK, how about just adding a little bit more juice then to the 20mm HV round?

Any chance of getting the sniper rifle and that giant radio pack camoflagued?

[Redcon-5]

Originally posted by Imperial Grunt:

Any chance of getting the sniper rifle and that giant radio pack camoflagued? [/QB]

Yes just as soon as I figure out how! Right now I have no idea how too texture things.

Speaking of textureing things I got to appluade the new MLRS on the Palidan. Looks great poesel.

[poesel]

Thanks! Its obviously moving wrong and the texture is weird but I'll think I can get that fixed next time.

I think I can help you with the textures. Which program do you use to make the models?

[Redcon-5]

Blender. It is just such a involed program that I havn't figured it out.

[poesel]

Yeah, its userfriendly like vi.

Can you mail/post your blender files?

[konstantine]

Wow, this is a fun module. Thanks, Poesel.

[Redcon-5]

I just looked and all I have to say is oop I did send poesel the wrong rifle. Sorry folks. But as an appolgy we(read poesel) are working on a textured version.

[Imperial Grunt]

Very cool. Any chance of getting the sniper rifle tuned up just a little?

[Redcon-5]

yes I'm always working to improve it per player requests. You just have to wait for the next CZ update

[poesel]

Thanks for all the praise but I also need critisism. I'd like to know what you DON'T like. Tell me - I can take it

I'll start:

- the bots can't fly the Ariels, they just sit around. I'll wait for the update and see if that fixes it.

- the Ariel KC-hs reload time is just a bit too high

- theres too much stuff in the inventory. Depending on fight intensity but I'd say the total amount should be cut in half to really be able to wear the enemy down.

- infantry needs a frag grenade (I know who will comment on that...

- theres at least one wrong texture for the Paladin RA-H

Theres surely more - tell me!