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Why I won´t buy it.....yet


ranXeron

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There might be some good reasons not to include inner views but at least one should be able to switch between "console" and complete and realistic cockpit views wich would enhance immersion a lot.

Also developing a dynamic campaign is difficult but not impossible - look at Falcon 4.0 with its full scale dynamic ground war.

At first glance specs and screenis look very promising - but missing interior views, absence of multiplayer support and dynamic campaign will keep many potential customers including me from spending 35 bucks until those missing features are added.

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I totally agree with ranXeron even if i had already preorder the game.I was thinking exactly as ranXeron and iam mostly waiting for steal beasts profesional, but i thought to give a chance to this game while waiting for more hardcore simulations to surface on line.Inner views to a called tank "simulation" combat game i think is a "must".It gives a lot of immersion,and could double the feelings of the real thing,something that could give you double pleasure and fun!!Many people would just buy it for the inner views!I strongly believe that to the future add-on pack or expansion pack better that is prepared it should be included the feature of inner views, including the choise that will let players choose the way they would like to play this game,more simplified or with full cockpit as ranXeron mentioned above!As concern me iam willing to pay some more money for a such feature.But if this is going to happen come on devs do it soon before steal beasts professional release date :D .

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Originally posted by Rick614:

For myself I care not one bit for the inner views....

Yep - but why not implement it so one can c h o o s e how to play.

In this state the game aims neither at the hardcore simmer nor at the "gimmeajoypad" gamer.

All this missing stuff makes this game appear somehow unfinished which is btw not uncommon nowadays.

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Originally posted by ranXeron:

Also developing a dynamic campaign is difficult but not impossible - look at Falcon 4.0 with its full scale dynamic ground war.

What's the big deal about a dynamic campaign?

One of the best tank sims produced IMHO so far, Steel Beasts (sorry Moon *crosses self repeatedly*) never had a dynamic campaign but was still an immersive product to play.

What it did have was a powerful map/scenario builder and some talented people who gave their time producing some wonderful scenarios.

I have a feeling we'll get some good scenarios for T72 as well.

[ June 18, 2005, 01:29 AM: Message edited by: Mace ]

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Originally posted by Mace:

What's the big deal about a dynamic campaign?

One of the best tank sims produced IMHO so far, Steel Beasts (sorry Moon *crosses self repeatedly*) never had a dynamic campaign but was still an immersive product to play...

I do agree - dynamic campaign is not "mandatory" and a pain i.t.a** to code but it´s just soooo fecking fascinating flying in falcon 3000 ft ogl watching all this non scripted skirmishes going on benath.... :D

..but no realistic views is disapointing for a software announced as "groundbreaking new tank simulation".

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After swallowing my bitter disappointment that this tanksim ain't WW 2-based (I promised myself not to buy it...) I 've changed my mind. A logical follow-up would be a WW-2 version of this engine and only good sales figures will make this possible. I still think the subject for this game is very ill-chosen, but there it is. I will buy it, so I can get used to the engine and prepare myself for the moment a WW-2 version will come out.

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Nobody said that the only that matters to those games are interior views.As i said before i agree with those who believe that interior views give more immersion to the game and and a lot of fun for me, i like to play simulations and feel that i really can control and drive a beast as more close as to real.(cockipts,inside room,buttons,etc).

I just think it should be much better if this game had included interior views and cockpit to all the three positions(commander,gunner,driver)with allowing the players to choose the way they like to play the game, with interior views or no,this way everyone would be satisfied and happy.

The ability that i can control and issue orders to more units than only mine and the scenario editor made me mostly to buy this game.Of course the realism features that were mentioned at overview section seems to be interesting and very promising,lets hope that it will be exactly as they said.But i like very much games where i can use my fantasy and create battles the way i like,something like being a director. :cool:

Also i believe that in tank simulation games its very crusial how your own AI units interact with the enemy AI and the ally units,do they work as they know when you need help and cover,when the battle seem to be against us and the enemy outnumdered do they change behavior and tactis?(dynamic change of behavior depending how the battle going) or its allways predictable and same tactis and behavior no matter how the battle is going?.When we spot a unit or units, will the ally AI try to encircle them if we are more than them?Things like that could make the game more ejoyable and dynamic!!(radio feature)

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Originally posted by Hub:

But, a tank sim is the opposite- you will be spending most of your time at "chin defilade" anxiously looking for numerous battlefield threats, or doing same through the GPS or sight extension.

Exactly - and what can add more realism to a tank sim than the attempt to reproduce the claustrophobic restrained interior of a battletank with all its restrictions regarding overview, all-round visibility and restrained field of view?

Don´t get me wrong: gfx of this sim are stunnig and I really appreciate all that eyecandy but for me the most fascinating aspect of a sim is the reproduction of a system let it be a car, airplane or tank as realistic and exact as possible. So reproducing the interior of a tank is not just self purpose but a design tool which makes the whole thing believeable.

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I think waitting for the demo is the best bet, bashing the game for this or that is useless at this point. I for one want more that just a tank sim I want to see how much control I have using both my tank and squad of infantry using real world tactics.

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Hub, at this point it would probably take too long to write up an AAR, because by the time it was done you'll be playing the demo smile.gif You should however head over to simhq.com if you haven't already... there are a couple of excellent AARs there.

Martin

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Its amazing how often people threaten to turn up their noses at the game that's within reach because it doesn't exactly match the game of their dreams. As the old saying goes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. ;)

Discounting the stuff that *isn't* in the game, there's a growing list of stuff that *is* in th game that sounds very very tempting. ...and "tempting" to me not only means buying the CD but shelling out a grand on a PC to run it on! And I'm VERY close to doing just that.

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Just to add my 2 cents worth being my 1st post and all.....after reading these posts about internal cockpit views I decided to download WWII online's latest offerings and proceeded to test drive a tank namely the Stug.I must admit I do enjoy cockpit views when driving this tank although it takes a bit of time working out the keymapper to get everything working properly.I like the fact when you're going flat out and switching between positions the whole cabin is bouncing around (the sounds suck abit,needs more grunt)and when firing rounds the cabin partially fills with smoke.

I do like the immersion effects in this game(WWII online) but overall the graphics aren't great so I am looking forward to trying the demo BOF.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Originally posted by MikeyD:

Its amazing how often people threaten to turn up their noses at the game that's within reach because it doesn't exactly match the game of their dreams. As the old saying goes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. ;)

Discounting the stuff that *isn't* in the game, there's a growing list of stuff that *is* in th game that sounds very very tempting. ...and "tempting" to me not only means buying the CD but shelling out a grand on a PC to run it on! And I'm VERY close to doing just that.

Hahaha...well, In the mean time I already ordered my copy...me and my big mouth ;)
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Originally posted by Petteerr:

....come on devs do it soon before steal beasts professional release date :D .

Don't hold your breath. Go check the Steel Beasts website and you'll find they now state very clearly that the professional versions are for defence agencies only. SB2 (the public version) is going to be the same program with most of its guts ripped out (and we all know the type of problems that can cause).

As much as I would like the extra immersion the tank interiors would undoubtably give (like the virtual cockpit in a flight sim does), I would be very careful about buying a stripped down product as soon as it's released. Don't get me wrong, I hope that Steel Beasts is a success. Afterall the whole simulation genre has been marginalised for some time now. We need as many products as possible to be successful and reach good sales figures. That way the bigger publishers will see the advantage of investing in the development of newer and better simulations.

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Originally posted by Jester_159th:

Don't hold your breath. Go check the Steel Beasts website and you'll find they now state very clearly that the professional versions are for defence agencies only.

You should check their website a bit more carefully too. SB Pro Personal Edition is coming out later this year and anybody can buy it. Price is 125$ though, but worth every penny if you want top-notch realism.

SB2 (the public version) is going to be the same program with most of its guts ripped out (and we all know the type of problems that can cause).
SB2, even though as not realistic as SB Pro, is still gonna be more realistic than T-72 : BoF for example. Differences will be dynamic campaign and few simplifications here and there, mostly in artillery calling and mine breaching. It definitely won't have its "guts ripped out" as you put it.
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Quote from ESim's website (Steel Beast developer):

Steel Beasts Professional

Is now available. Interested customers should contact us. (Defense agencies only, please.)

Don't believe me? Go look for yourself:

[commercial URL deleted]

They are developing the pro and pro personal versions for the military first, then removing code to make the public version. This is far more difficult to do without creating unforseen problems, than starting with a basic module then adding extra sections to it....Hence the "ripping the guts out of it" comment. Possibly an exageration but not that far from the facts. From what they've stated on their website this does indeed appear to be how they plan on developing the product. If not then they need to clarify the facts.

As I also said though: I hope they manage it and it's a success. From past personal experience though, I will need far more convincing to part with money for a product build in the way they have decided on.

[ July 18, 2005, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: Moon ]

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Originally posted by Jester_159th:

Quote from ESim's website (Steel Beast developer):

Steel Beasts Professional

Is now available. Interested customers should contact us. (Defense agencies only, please.)

Don't believe me? Go look for yourself:

[commercial URL deleted]

That's right, SB Pro is just for defence agencies, SB Pro PE is available for everyone. The reason why they mention "defence agencies only" with SB Pro(and SB Pro only) is the price. It costs thousands of dollars.

Fine, some code might be removed but mostly it's altering and adding it. Like I said, for the customer most differences to Pro versions can be seen from the way artillery is called, minefields breached and the dynamic campaign. It will not be altered to an arcade game. You should study the official fan site

and the SimHQ SB Forums before making pre-mature assumptions.

[ July 18, 2005, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: Moon ]

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