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Now waltero, I hate to burst your bubble, but the Germans, Italians, Romanians, Hungarians, Bulgarians and Finns all had a Christian God too. Heck, the Italians even had the Pope. Think it would have at least bought them a victory over the godless commies.

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Yes, I think the Germans had the backing of the 'Pope' (Catholic church)as well.

OK I know this is not going to get anywhere!

Whether you believe it or not God was a factor in WWII.

You dint hear much about the Germans making reference to God or calling upon God to help them overcome the Allies.

Not to mention the millions of prayers by those that the Germans were enslaving, killing and torturing. Chances are if you did not believe in God before the war you did by the wars end.

Hind sight is 20/20

We might understand that the Germans were not as great as they themselves or others thought at 'that' time.

I hear it in interviews on allot of the documentaries. Allied solders saying (while they were taking German prisoners) hear are troops better then theirs.

As well as the Germans, They could not understand how they could be defeated in Africa (and elsewhere) Thinking that they were the Best of the best!

Sure it was all in there mind. Do you think it helped them win battles?

They stormed over Europe for years before they lost a battle!

For a time they looked unstoppable!

You read about some of the German combatants, and have to wonder who does that!

The German tank commander that Gave no thought to enemy Armor but hated AT guns.

Going strait down the middle of a tank infested road blowing Sherman's left and right trying to get at a AT gun. Ended up taking a town single handed.

For allot of Germans the War was fun.

By today's standard allot of things may look over exaggerated.

During the course of the war one would stand in wonder!

If you are an aggressive player chances are Germany would best suit your needs.

What it is!!!

[ June 15, 2005, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: waltero ]

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OK, let's at least keep this senseless argument based in fact. Hitler grew up Catholic. Throughout his rise, and even in Mein Kampf, he makes several religious comments and often calls on God. There are even some instances of him using religion to justify his anti-Jewish racial beliefs. It was not until he achieved power that he began to view the political institution of the church as competition against the state for the loyalty of the people and his political language became much more secular and occasionally anti-Catholic or anti-Christian.

And for whatever it is worth, the Vatican maintained formal neutrality throughout the war though they showed swerving leanings towards the side they thought likely to win throughout.

At the end of the day though people, not countries, have religious beliefs. There were numerous people on all sides and at all levels with a variety of beliefs - some strongly held and others less so. We will never know the true extent of those beliefs and we will definitely never know what impact they had on the conflict. But one thing is certain, by mixing religion and politics into a single thread there should be no surprise that fireworks have erupted. I just can't help but wonder if there is any point to it all or if this thread shouldn't be closed so as to spare us the potential for polluting the community unnecessarily.

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Originally posted by waltero:

You dint hear much about the Germans making reference to God or calling upon God to help them overcome the Allies.

Well, that's because they lost.

What did you think all those German Army Chaplains were busy doing, anyway?

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Of course everyone has a right to their opinion and to express it. I've read a lot here that's true and a lot that isn't, which is probably par for the course.

My vote - close this thread and let's move on. I see a lot of heat being generated but precious little light!

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My point is it was God that won the War for the Allies.

The people of WWII know this!

Most of the History buffs and Godless people of today can not understand this.

The only time people (non believers) call upon God is if they are in the Hospital, Jail or time of War.

So it is no matter anyway.

But let it be known that there are all kinds of facts that one can take in his understanding of WWII.

Everything is not cut and dry.

Read as many books as you want, you can never know it all.

Only if you went back in time and experienced the actual War would you began to understand.

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Games are the only thing we have in recreating the war. For the most part WWII Games are Historically correct!

There is knowledge in WWII games.

Soddball and others believe that one can not Gian any knowledge or understanding playing War games or watching War documentaries.

These self proclaimed scholars believe they know more about WWII then those who lived it.

They also believe that anybody who would dare to believe that the Germans were the best fighting force on the planet at that time, are Kraut lovers due to German Uberness portrayed in Games.

No! I can watch War documentaries and Interviews and see that all stood in awe (at that time) when it came to Germany.

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So what you're saying is that despite all evidence to the contrary you continue to believe that the Germans were the greatest thing ever?

I can see now why your religious belief is so strong.

I'll be leaving this thread now, since I have no desire to read the deranged rantings of this intellectual pygmy any longer.

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Originally posted by waltero:

Give Hitler the Pope and seven midget monks and he might of had a fighting chance!

Does a future Pope count? He had that. The midget monks could have posed a problem, though.

I think waltero may be on to something here. To my knowledge no previous World War II game has covered the fact that God was on the Allied side. Obviously SC needs a God unit added. Perhaps resources could be devoted to increasing faith, just like they are now used for research. Once a certain level of faith is schieved, the God unit is built and that side wins the war. Who cares about minutia like the subs rusting or deep water if you can add God to your side?

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Originally posted by JerseyJohn:

During WWII even the Soviets stopped religious persecution and openly allowe religious worship.

All nations at war claim God is on their side.

Didn't "The Longest Day" make that point by having both Allied and German officers wondering if God was on "our" side?
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DaveH,

I don't remember The Longest Day very well, the only time I saw it was when it first came out. But naturally if you're fighting, regardless of the side of your on, you're sure that somehow God is on your side and not on the other.

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Originally posted by Dave H:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JerseyJohn:

During WWII even the Soviets stopped religious persecution and openly allowe religious worship.

All nations at war claim God is on their side.

Didn't "The Longest Day" make that point by having both Allied and German officers wondering if God was on "our" side? </font>
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OK you fuznucken Freaks!

You have your understanding and I will have mine! (understanding the God factor).

Some of the men and women who fought the war Fought for God against evil!

(Quote)

So what you're saying is that despite all evidence to the contrary you continue to believe that the Germans were the greatest thing ever?

_________________________________________________

I am not talking about evidence! I am talking about the understanding the people had during the time of WWII!

Germany looked strong. Germany was powerful and countries saw it this way.

Example; You can read many books on the German economy and it reads that it was ****.

Yet Germany boasted that it had one of the strongest economies in the world.

Countries saw Germany as having a strong economy!

In fact they stood in Awe!

Same with the weapons and military might.

So when it comes to Games, German Uberness is correct!

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Originally posted by JerseyJohn:

All nations at war claim God is on their side.

I don't think it was as much of whose side God was on, But rather who was on God's side.

I believe that the greater God will prevail in Battle.

There should be no question who God was fighting with, now.

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Originally posted by waltero:

My point is it was God that won the War for the Allies.

He did? What unit did he fight with? I'd love to see if he was mentioned in dispatches.

Regarding the Soviets. During the early phase of the war the NKVD were responsible for ensuring that STAVKA's orders were followed out to the letter (the Soviet system is generally quite inflexible as far as Command and Control is concerned). This of course led to a number of Soviet troops being lost by being made example of.

However, as time went on the Soviets came more adapt at fighting war, and thus the NKVD 'back up' was less necessary.

By 1944 their military hardware, especially tanks and artillery, were technically capable of dealing with their German opponents.

They were also becoming more flexible at the tactical level, and their troops were becoming more experienced.

This all eventually contributed to the success of Operation Bagration and the complete collapse of Army Group Centre.

From then on, the Germans were very much on the back foot, impacted by the losses caused by fighting a war on two fronts (including Italy as part of the Western Front here).

Hence because they lost I'd argue they weren't as good as you give them credit for, and that the Soviets became by 1944 quite effective in dealing with them.

[ June 17, 2005, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: Mace ]

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