AAR, Terif Axis, Jollyguy Allies

[Jollyguy]

Yes, I’m still playing and still trying to beat Terif. It seems each game we play is more interesting than the last. I still like the Allied side better, but took Terif’s suggestion to play the Axis also, and it has improved my overall game. In this game though he was Axis, me Allies. He said this is the longest game he’s played as Axis…I took him to 1945.

What I’ve learned from Terif is first, that strategic imperatives and positioning take absolute priority. In prior games I’ve killed scores of his units, but it finally occurred to me that strategic position is much more important. Next, and this goes hand in glove with the first, you generally must adapt your strategy to what your opponent provides, not to some preconceived idea of what you want to do before the war begins. You can’t say before the war begins that you’re going to invade Iraq or hold Egypt…you must wait and see what develops. This is especially so for the Allies as they have to be reactive well into the midgame.

We started the game weeks ago, so some of the details are foggy. The first recollection of seizing an opening was when he decided to reclaim Norway and Sweden, during the summer of 1941, just before Barbarossa. I held him as long as possible, but his bombers forced me to evacuate before he bombed my ports and trapped me. Knowing that this tied down a fair share of his forces I garrisoned the front Russian cities with corps to buy time, and decided to have the Russians hit the Middle East, which went off just fine with the help of a Russian bomber and two paratroops. He fell back and then garrisoned the Iraqi port and Iran, but they eventually fell. The key in this battle was that just about the time the Yanks and Brits were ready to head to Casablanca for a standard West Africa landing, one of my Russian paratroops was able to seize Syria and it’s port, choking of Axis reinforcements, the first of which had just landed. This allowed me to eventually destroy an HQ, a couple armies, and four or five corps. But with the Syrian port in my possession it occurred to me that I could avoid expensive Yank amphip transports, and use the loop to cheaply transport them and the Brits to the Middle East, which is what I did. Meanwhile, my LR air noticed the middle Norwegian city empty, so I took that and reinforced and moved my bomber up there, but he was all over me and operated over multiple units, including his German bomber which had been hitting my Iraqi oil and Baghdad, from south of Amman. So the thought occurred to me that without his bomber I had free rein in the Middle to deploy my forces without him seeing what I was doing, including moving an unsupported but experienced Brit bomber and a couple fighters to Amman. But first I created a diversion and had all four carriers hit the garrison at Casablanca as if I was going to land there instead, and had my BBs reduce the Spanish city to the north, and it worked, as he operated a couple units west, pulling them from Alexandria and Cairo, which my British bomber could see. All the while I kept dispatching between 20 and 30 land and naval units around the loop. Without his bomber to spot me I was able to deploy my Russians and Brit air units to seize the Suez Canal when the Western Allies arrived, so my units could pass through and disembark around Syria.

Meanwhile he advanced in Russia, but with him tied down in Scandanavia and the Middle East it occurred to me that I could defend the area stubbornly. I kept my engineer busy, building three different defensive lines of two-three fortifications each behind the mines as I fell back, making him use up time and pay dearly for each hex captured. This ate up enough units btw that he was unable to take Murmansk until late 1942 or early 1943 giving Uncle Joe those extra mpps all that time. Not taking Murmansk is unusual for Terif, as that’s usually one of his primary targets. And when he did move to take it I held him off for awhile with guerrilla tactics, including a supporting HQ. With the extra mpps I was able to replace my units as they were chewed up under the treads of Axis panzers moving east from the mines.

Meanwhile, as I was convoying my land units to the loop, my LR 3 carriers and BBs spotted and sank three Italian BBS trying to join up with Kreigsmarine units in France. Anyway, the Allies kept landing around Syria, and I can’t remember if I took Cairo and Alexandria first, or Turkey, but they both eventually fell. He lost another HQ and three corps in Egypt after I bombed them with my Brit and Russian bombers, and Uncle Joe took Turkey with the aid of both Russian paratroops, and the US and British Allied paratroopers, and Allied air, which had by now been supported by arriving HQs. I also took the Turkish port with the aid of carriers and US amphibs, which were up to level four amphib by now, and carriers which had now arrived around the loop. After that I concentrated on Rumania, which also fell and surrendered under the weight of repeated air attacks from land fighters and paratroop landings around Bucharest. After Rumania fell I bombed Sofia, thinking I’d get that too, but I didn’t. A large battle ensued in which he pushed me back, so I retreated to the safety of the Turkish mountains.

Meanwhile, he had broken through in Russia and was advancing on the Caucusses, which he took, so I retreated a Russian HQ and two armies, two corps, and a paratroop to Turkey. And, in a key move, in late 1943 he started bombing Manchester’s port with two German bombers, accepting the losses from my fighters, and choking off the all convoys and starving the Brits of mpps. And, by now the Western Allies had the majority of their forces around the in the Med and were unable to mount an effective offensive elsewhere. Toward the end of the game I was eventually able to reclaim the Caucusses and take most of Africa, but didn’t have enough land units in theatre.

So, knowing I was weak elsewhere, he lightly garrisoned France, and fortified the area west of Stalingrad behind the riverline, all the while pushing in Russia regardless of losses, and eventually taking the third Russian capital in October of 1944. But the Russians didn’t surrender and I took it back…but he was poised to take it back again. With only about 17 Russian units left and no way to place units up north as he had me surrounded, it was only a matter of time before the dice rolled his way. With the snows on the way the Russians might have been able to hold out into early 1945, but the writing was on the wall, and he was starting to advance on other fronts, so I capitulated.

Anyway, I made a number of mistakes but learned a great deal, which I’ll try to apply in the next two games we have going, one where I’m Axis, one Allied. With luck maybe one day I’ll achieve my goal of defeating Terif. I can only hope!

Bob

[Terif]

Yep - this was a SC2 game, not WaW which covers more the operational level – and Strategic Command 2 is first and foremost about strategy: in which area to send your troops and concentrate firepower to reach superior positions against the enemy .

It doesn´t really matter to loose a few task forces if they do their duty to delay the enemy so you can conquer more valuable positions and their sacrifice was not for nothing – Defending Middle East and Africa cost Axis 2 full task forces with their HQs, even mostly destroyed out of supply due to allied air superiority which disrupted axis supply lines behind the front, but while Allies were busy in the desert it also gave Axis the necessary relieve in France (where several allied units got killed around Brest before the survivors except Brest garrison evacuated) and Russia to conquer their strategic goals. Romania seeing the bloodiest battle western Allies ever encountered with several dozen units on both sides fighting a guerilla warfare in the mountains and rough terrain of this since generations contested battleground. Allies combining the forces of all three major nations, bringing also the firepower of up to 15 air units into the fight...but Axis having the advantage of the inner line, beeing able to replace their losses and bringing in reinforcements without hassle....fighting in familiar terrain and for their homes and families...beeing finally victorious

An excellent game where it went back and forth – 1940 UK aggressively conquers all of Scandinavia, reducing most of the Axis port cities to ashes.... in 1941/42 Axis advancing at all fronts, reclaiming also the north till all of continental Europe is in their hands from Portugal till Iran...1943 Allies liberating and conquering half of their lost territories, including parts of Scandinavia for some time, Turkey and most of Africa, even entering Balkan with strong troops, forcing Romanias surrender...pushing towards the Axis heart...Allies outproducing Axis 2:1....1944 seeing the demise of the allied power after the allied spearhead in Romania got wiped out in heavy fightings with the in Russia approaching german Wehrmacht forcing them to now garrison their back against an attack from the other direction via Stalingrad-Caucasus ....when later the allied offensive liberating Caucasus - pushing against Stalingrad - began and all of Africa till Cassablanca was connected (only Algier + Tunis still Axis), german Oberkommando gave orders for the final counterstrike...Rommel and his desert foxes landed at Algier, splitting UK and US forces there and breaking the siege, launching their coordinated offensive together with offensives from Istanbul against the turkish capital and 2 task forces operating to Stalingrad, throwing the allied so called liberators back there...with Russia at the edge of surrendering, Allies finally threw in the towel in Winter 1944/45 – longest and among the most exciting games I played so far .

[jon_j_rambo]

Was this game all done via e-mail?

[Terif]

Yes, since we are both on different time zones e-mail was the method of choice

[jon_j_rambo]

@Terif --- My schedule might be a little flexible, if you're interested in some TCP/IP for a couple hours, then e-mail.

jjr_2008@yahoo.com

[Liam]

JG,

I must say Oh My God! I have never heard of an instance in SC2 vanilla of someone extracting that much punishment out of Terif. You are very aggressive and willing to pursue a lot of strategies and tactics I wouldn't. I am still attempting to learn from my losses...I too favor Allies against him, Axis REQUIRE perfect play. I find Axis are at a disadvantage if Allies are played very well, a slight disadvantage..

It's hard for players to grasp the full strategic scope of SC2-Vanilla, it requires a lot thinking. You can do so very much and yet you must cover your bases...

I found this game interesting that you struck at him again and again and obviously you knew that it was dangerous but you do so and thus pushed him on a defensive stance, rare with Terif. You must notice his Tight Formations and Unit arrangement is quite exquisite, and you must be be thinking more than 2 dimensionally to outwit him. I have yet to achieve it. Though I'd like to challenge you a game by E-mail if you have the time. There is no one else left to play Rambo doesn't play me anymore and I'd like to see your tactics first hand

P.S. wargamer123@aol.com is my E-mail addy and I only prefer PG League, and I prefer Axis but am flexible or like Mirrors also

P.S.S. Going to study your AARs from now on

[jon_j_rambo]

Liam, haven't seen you online, game sometime?

[SeaMonkey]

Whoa whoa whoa!!! Wait a minute, Jolly,..... you're telling me that Terif sent every unit from the Red Sea, Egypt, Suez region to Western Africa after your diversion.

No enemy units remained in this crucial area for surveillance while you transported in 20 to 30 units in????? No Italian or German Naval presence in the Red Sea? No ground unit and fortification at Suez?

I must be playing too much WaW, I'm at a loss. Terif...you did this on purpose!

Terif...you did have Gibraltar?

[Jollyguy]

Liam, et me get back to you on a game. My real life is very busy at moment, but yea, we can get something going eventually.

And I totally agree with the comment that the Axis must be played to perfection. I still have LOT to learn in that regard, and I think it will be quite a while before I get my Axis past 1943 with him. But Terif’s advice for me to play the Axis was good, as doing so provides a deeper awareness of the game and the value of strategic position and the continual tradeoffs that must be made as there never seems to be enough mpps, and also that the Axis too have balancing limitations. For instance, in general the Axis can concentrate in two theatres simultaneously and prevail well into the mid-game, the Brits, at first, only one. In the early to mid-game the Allied player needs to carefully gauge Axis units committed, and mass his forces elsewhere, which is usually Africa and Scandanavia. This applies well into 1943. I.e., after Rumania surrendered I thought I had the strategic initiative and enough units in theatre to stand and fight and maybe advance, but Terif pushed me back. The difference now though is that I extradite my forces so they can fight another day, whereas I used to lean into the punches and get stubborn and lose large number of units in ill-timed battles. If the Allies mount an offensive on the mainland in the early to mid-game and numerous Axis units get operated over, my advice is to back off and come at him again later. Especially if he can bomb your ports and trap your task force. The Allied strategy in the early to mid-game should be, at minimum cost, be to chink away at the Axis, taking a few mpps here, a few there, but in an advantageous and very cost effective fashion, as the Brits need to buildup a robust force that can cause trouble around Barbarossa.

As to the Middle East battles. Since Terif had the bulk of his forces attacking the Russian mines, and a large task force still securing Scandanavia, that left him open in the Middle East. Like his comment about interior lines, in that case it was the Russians with that advantage and better supply, as Axis reinforcements could only arrive after transport across the Med, and I could pretty much count what he had committed in other theatres, and gain the local advantage of numbers and terrain. The same can be said for diplomacy. If he uses diplomacy on minors with an eye on attacking Spain, then that leaves him fewer units elsewhere.

And Sea Monkey, no, he kept units in Egypt, three German corps and an HQ, but he did move one or two units west after my Casablanca diversion. Again, that demonstrates that the Axis cannot be everywhere in force at once. The Russian bomber, with the help of the unsupported British Bomber and arriving RN BBs, were able to knock Cairo and Alexandria and ports to 3 or below, trapping his units. But like he said his Egyptian task forces bought him time elsewhere. His Axis in Russia is like a boxer who puts his head down and absorbs blows but keeps coming. I.e., it is very rare for him to ever operate a fighter west, not even a minor one, as he keeps those in Russia for his combined arm attacks, to soften up whatever infantry is in front him. And he keeps enough forces out west to meet the threat, thus avoiding operating costs. Only if the Allies are truly making a strategic threat out west will he operate units to meet them. Otherwise he sits behinds his European entrenchments, and surrenders less strategic areas, and keeps keeps slogging forward in Russia.

This was a very interesting game, no doubt. I’m still working on improving my game, but taking him to 1945 is a vast improvement, and I look forward to putting practice the lessons learned.

Bob

[jon_j_rambo]

Molodzi rebyata!!! Ist voll fresh! )

[Liam]

JG, yes I understand, I miss playing IP SC2 competitively.

As to your strategic discussion, I am glad that you are opening some closed doors and elaborating on your tactical thinking. I am a very rigid tactical mind and in that I lose several games for every a couple I do well in vs Terif. Though against an average SC2er it's hard to lose when you are playing a guy that is very very calculating as Terif.

As you mentioned reacting, and inventing strategy as you go along, to mix it up, i.e. Switch to Jabs and do not focus on your Right hand. Idea is conserving Strength in a boxing match, or add something unexpected. That seems to be what you're good at... I am trying to learn about this! Now alternatively for Axis strategy, leaning all your weight in one direction but being flexible enough to take the weight off when you see you will have no hope

SC2 vanilla is tough... In a game vs Terif I try to Conquor Scando-Conquor N.Africa and I try to hold MidEast. Although this is impossible, and I start Barby so stripped Terif can throw all his weight either way combo'd Russia and Combo'd UK-USA. End Result is he can take both Theatres or all 3... That is the end of the Axis MPP advantage and with no KO in the Middle, Inner Line, Russia, Game over...

Real complex and yet real simple, throw in Bombers, Paras and some Techs and this game is sneaky. I'm always letting Terif dictate to me strategy, and when I take the iniative a few times here or there, he will usually start to pay

on Top of this! I also notice Unit arrangement, use of Terrain, use of fort-terrain... SO ESSENTIAL for Allies and even for the Axis, if you do not create Box Formations of Mass combined Arms your going to get splattered. Regardless of Resupply and distance from your bases... Allies perhaps have the advantage in certain theatres and at certain points but as do the Axis just in alternative situations

I am still trying to break from my classical narrowminded Wargame Cover all my grounds, all my bases and then throw an offensive. The Careful Balance of SC2 Vanilla is very fun, 2 years here of learning...

I see in this game you throw Terif off balance with new strategic iniatives and that may not work against someone else, and you must be arranging your terrain-defense-attacks well. Romania is a Pitfall, all those Mountains probably killed you, especially attacking from the direction you did. NO ONE can take Romania easily if one wants to give it enough forces. Italy would've probably been easier for you to take if it wasn't already Fortified as that narrow strip can be assualted at two ends and it's surrender is expensive for Axis

[HimAgain]

JG,

Sounds like a titanic struggle. Lotsa fun too I'm sure. I envy you multiplayer types. I'm stuck playing against AI becasue I can't comit to time needed for multiplayer.

Real life opponent must add a whole new dimension to SC2 or WaW.

So i live vicariously thru message boards.

Thanks for sharing your experiences one and all.

It would be nice to see an auto diary function included with game. Would make for a nostalgic look back at old games or just to share with others.

Cheers,

Angus.