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Well Hubert, I finally got SC2 and spent the weekend on it. Didnt really mind the lack of hexes but couldnt cope with the isometric view. Liked some of the features, but overall, for a wargamer this isnt the game. Perhaps other people will like it and given the time you spent on creating it, I certainly hope so. However, I didnt like the big pieces and the big squares. I am going back to SC1 and really hope that you might think about combining the best features of both games and produce another game for wargamers (with hexes).

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Well as most know, there has been quite a few discussions about hexes instead of squares before and after the game release.

but overall, for a wargamer this isnt the game.
I think that depending on your personal "wargame" preferences the above can be a valid argument. I enjoy the game, but I do feel it is more of a game than a good "wargame" simulation. I think that is fixable in future patches if Hubert decides he wants to "fix" it. I do still feel however that the squares themselves, instead of hexes, has little to do with that.

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Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

@Yogi --- What kind of wishy washy commment is that? Either Hexes or Squares must be better. The answer is simple, Hexes.

Actually Rambo, I agree with you that hexes are better then squares. That may of course just be the old board wargamer in me. I just feel that the hex vs. square argument is secondary to the rest of the game. So, wishy washy or not, while if given the choice, I would vote for hexes, I think a great game can make it with either.

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I agree with Yogi on this, I prefer hexes to squares but I don't think with this game that it makes much of a diffrance. If it were a tatical level game with smaller scale and smaller time frame then yea that is when it makes an impact but not at this scale, IMO. I enjoy playing this game and look forward to the next patch, sure it is not the best war game I hae ever played, not even in the top five, but it is not a bad game and has given me many hours of fun. I think that HC is a little involved in SC 2 balancing/bug fixing right now to be thinking about SC 3. Give it a good 6 months then ask that question.

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With time and Fixes/Adjustments,...SC2 has the potential to,...if not ascend into the 'Top-5' listing in this game category,...to at least 'Ascend' to even a higher category-rating than it has already Ascended!.

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Originally posted by Alexanderthe_OK:

Well Hubert, I finally got SC2 and spent the weekend on it. Didnt really mind the lack of hexes but couldnt cope with the isometric view. Liked some of the features, but overall, for a wargamer this isnt the game. Perhaps other people will like it and given the time you spent on creating it, I certainly hope so. However, I didnt like the big pieces and the big squares. I am going back to SC1 and really hope that you might think about combining the best features of both games and produce another game for wargamers (with hexes).

"I didnt like the big pieces and the big squares."

I didn't like it at first either, it seemed the map area displayed was too small and the pieces too big. Changing the resolution the game as played at to a higher resolution has the effect of putting more visible map in the box and makes the pieces smaller, makes the game more playable. Using NATO symbols I found is easier to keep track of things than the 3D icons.

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Hmmm, Alexander, in some ways at first I have seen what you have seen. I was at first, wow! Features, Tiles, whatever... lots of Tech, lots of Expansion, and look at this MAP. Baby this Map rocks. Then I was like, wait a minute. God this is tedious, predictable, what's missing? I had a great time, aside from waiting for 15 minutes for Dialup players to finish and send a turn total between the two of us... I kinda miss the 4 minute turns or even sometimes 2 minute turns of good ole SC.

HC, has updated a much needed edition he hasn't refined it. If you have dialup and a 1997 computer I can understand, stick out SC1 and use the many MODs the guys make for it. Though if you want a full gaming experience, of at least a Pentium4 with a GIG and Cable, SC2 will eventually monopolize the Market. I know HC isn't all that impressed with his sales right now, he's probably dissappointed in things. What he doesn't realize it's hard marketing this puppy the way he is, it will pick up and the popularity of the game will also. It needs the refinements as I said

once those are done, get over the detail, streamlining comes with memorization. A few more minutes means a few more battles instead of a few more modifications. SC1 had a lot of little tweaks to make before you could start the other turn also, this one is somewhat more detailed and I think it's the future. I personally got bored of SC1, I got good enough to beat everyone but Terif in it. Wasn't that Complex. I still cannot beat the ChessMaster but I will eventually.. Great competition, great fun..

I will admit Tiles are a bit annoying.. at first, but I'm use to Civ3 and 4 so I will cope. You just gotta remeber there are a lot of ways in your backdoor and out of it, if you think quick... Locks the game up, no... people will flood this game with possibilities... 3 million men did not cover the entire front of Barbarossa 1 to 2 thousand miles from the Baltic to the Black Sea.. and the front was often very static, rather they carpeted sections that mattered... KeyPoints all in all, if you master this game you are a tactician of some sorts.. If you master SC1 you're a fair skilled Arm Chair Majour...

I Mastered games as detailed as HOI, so I suppose I am already 1 star general, but that took a year of losing and crashing tongue.gif I'll never read the book

Why not try some slow paced PBEM.. play the Allies as they're a challenge.. bomb German factories inside of Germany for a change. Bomb Hamburg, Invade Italy for a change.. Do Kursk for Real.. It's more possible now than before.. this game is 7 times more historical than SC1 ever could be. SC was a kick back to 10-15 years ago

Originally posted by Alexanderthe_OK:

Well Hubert, I finally got SC2 and spent the weekend on it. Didnt really mind the lack of hexes but couldnt cope with the isometric view. Liked some of the features, but overall, for a wargamer this isnt the game. Perhaps other people will like it and given the time you spent on creating it, I certainly hope so. However, I didnt like the big pieces and the big squares. I am going back to SC1 and really hope that you might think about combining the best features of both games and produce another game for wargamers (with hexes).

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Originally posted by Alexanderthe_OK:

Well Hubert, I finally got SC2 and spent the weekend on it. Didnt really mind the lack of hexes but couldnt cope with the isometric view. Liked some of the features, but overall, for a wargamer this isnt the game. Perhaps other people will like it and given the time you spent on creating it, I certainly hope so. However, I didnt like the big pieces and the big squares. I am going back to SC1 and really hope that you might think about combining the best features of both games and produce another game for wargamers (with hexes).

Hey Alexander, you played many a many game of SC that is for sure so I do remember you. We had some good fights ourselves I think. I understand what you mean. For us ol foggies that are use to hexes it does take a bit of getting use to. But give it another try, it just takes a bit for those of us use to hexes.

I also am not a fan of the campaign. (For various reasons) But give the Mods a chance. There are some good mod's out there. The North Africa Mod is good and Kuni is building a great Mod on the eastern front (He has done a lot of great work but is still refining it). I hope others make more. I think that is the greatness of this game - that via the editor that you can build some really fun mod games. Just my view of course as I am sure others love the campaign game. But I hope you will give a some time.

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To answer your question about SC3 : I think it's gonne ba hard to make a SC3.

Not only because turn based games sell less and less but also (let's face it) because SC2 was published with an unfinished AI.

Most people who bought this game will probably not buy SC3 for the lack of an AI in SC2. People like me -that regularly come here and knew SC1- keep on hoping that one day there will be an actual AI D-Day in this WWII game, but the other players won't return.

I said it before and I say it again : releasing the game without a decent AI has cost ALOT of credebility. Not to mention the fact that after four months there is still no AI D-Day to speak off.

Sorry to be so harsh, but that's what I think.

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