Ok, Official AAR beta, detailed.

[Blashy]

So now we have more info from Hubert so here goes.

Me and Nax playing the default Fall Weiss scenario.

Production queue is disabled, softbuilds are enabled and we've disabled consumable chits for diplomacy and research (it is on by default).

Turn 1

Rundstedt manually attached unit: 2 Tanks, 1 Corps and 2 Air Fleets successfully took Warsaw firs turn on a clear fall day.

The rest of the units moved into Polish land and inflicted enough casualties for a first turn surrender of Poland. This is the first time I succeed in taking Warsaw the first turn, I've destoyed the corps on Warsaw in the past but never been able to take the city on the 1st turn.

I destroyed 2 Corps and attacked every unit except the army down south.

Navy goes into hiding in the Baltic sea.

Maginot army closest to Benelux was attacked to reduce entrenchement.

I'll leave it as is and reply to any questions.

[ November 05, 2005, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: Blashy ]

[Lars]

What are the small circles with the 1's and A's in them?

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Lars:

What are the small circles with the 1's and A's in them?

1's are TECH levels, some German units start with level 1 in motorization, anti tank and infantry weapons.

The A to the HQ represents "Auto Assist", which means I select the units it supports but if I happen to only select 4 of the possible 6 it can support it will auto assign the other 2. There is a "manual" setting which you have to assign all of them, if you forget to assign all 6, your fault.

And yes, German HQs can support 6 units.

[JerseyJohn]

Terrific Blashy, thanks for clearing things up. I'm starting to understand the new system and am also enjoying the game. Your screenshot is very good.

[Codename Condor]

wow, looks very nice, and i love that production queue option. the auto assist option for Hq is a nice feature that way it could speed up units selection but i hope the auto option is also possible like in Sc1... for fast games.

[xwormwood]

Thank you, Blashy!

[Blashy]

You have 3 settings for HQs, default like SC1, Auto-Assist and Manual.

The Production queue is something that will have alot of debate over it. Me and Nax feel that having to save up MPPs for a unit is representative of a production queue and once you buy it and have to wait again makes it feel like you have two production queues.

You can still script units to appear even if you have it disabled.

The great thing is that it can be turned on or off.

[Blashy]

Turn 2 for Germany, all toops are moved to liberate the French from themseleves

As the French pull back from the maginot line German corps on the siegfried line are ordered to push into French terroritory and await HQs support after destroying most of the maginot line and severly damaging an army group.

German subs still running free, not attacking any merchant shipping.

Canada declares war on Germany, supply convoy to UK begins.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

The Maginot Line simply evaporated on the first turn

of the invasion, just like that? Are fortifications

wimpier this time around or did the Germans get

lucky again?

[SeaMonkey]

Blashy, first thanks for the AAR.

About HQ attachments. If you manually attach 6 units will those units stay attached from turn to turn or do you have to manually reattach at the beginning of a new turn?

If on auto assist, I assume the auto attached units do so as per SC1 default criteria? If not what is the priority path for auto attachment?

Can you detail the build queu function. Assuming you save up MPPs turn to turn until the unit completes the queu, my understanding from your comments are that they appear as completed but have to go through some kind of training program before deployment is allowed (ie. the second delay)?

Do they appear on map after the 1st delay but are frozen?

Is the 2nd delay period the same for all units, assuming the first queu is different for each type of unit?

[ November 05, 2005, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

[Blashy]

Originally posted by John DiFool the 2nd:

The Maginot Line simply evaporated on the first turn

of the invasion, just like that? Are fortifications

wimpier this time around or did the Germans get

lucky again?

No, he removed his units to pull them around the capital and surround the tank unit so it can hopefully entrench and upgrade it to level 1 heavy tanks. They are a pain to take out.

About HQ attachments. If you manually attach 6 units will those units stay attached from turn to turn or do you have to manually reattach at the beginning of a new turn?

No, they stay attach until you remove them or they get out of range, if they get out of range and you forget to re attach another unit you will only have 5 units attached. This is why I always use auto assist, just in case I make a mistake I know my HQs will always support 6 units (if in range of course).

Can you detail the build queu function. Assuming you save up MPPs turn to turn until the unit completes the queu, my understanding from your comments are that they appear as completed but have to go through some kind of training program before deployment is allowed (ie. the second delay)?

Do they appear on map after the 1st delay but are frozen?

Step by step.

1- Save up mpps for a unit.

2- You have mpps go into "purchase units" and select the unit.

3- No you have to wait (again) until that unit is "built".

Until that unit is built, it is in your build queue.

I like the production queue for scripting incoming units by default and for specific campaigns that you can make where you can't purchase units but you have units incoming through the queue.

But having it enabled when you purchase units is not my cup of tea, for me it slows down the game and it makes me wait "twice" for a unit, the part where I save up mpps for it is what I consider the production queue and having to wait again makes it too much of a long process.

Luckily Hubert made a sweet little button to disable it

The 2nd delay is the actual build time and each unit has different build times, a corps is 3 turns a tank group is 5. The 1st delay is saving up your MPPs to buy it (like in SC).

Overall, it is a fantastic innovation by Hubert.

[Blashy]

Next turn, I will also put dates for this AAR in futur turns. For now, turn 3 for Axis.

Axis decide to push hard towards Paris after seeing a hole, preventing French units from surrouding Paris.

They used the bulk of their most mobile units for this incursion destroying 1 army group, while the rear guard of elit armies and 1 tank group attacked Benelux but where short of units to take the capital.

NOTE: What you are seeing for icons are the military standards icons instead of the 3D icons.

[Blashy]

Nov 5th 1939.

In a heavy counter attack the Allies used 1 air fleet, 1 bomber, 2 carriers and 1 battleship to attack a tank group that was positioned to the tile south of the Benelux port. They bring it down to STR 6.

The corps at the gates of Paris gets destoyed in french counter attacks (a Corps with level 1 tech in anti tank, infantry weapons and motorizaion, ouch...)

The Germans keep up the pressure.

The Benelux corps who moved on the capital is destroyed and the capital is taken at the same time the battleship in port is attacked by 2 corps and the damaged tank group which then pulls back (love that new feature of being able to move after attacking). The result is one destoyed battleship :cool:

Plunder from Benelux: 41mpps

The tile North West to the Benelux port HAD one of the carriers that attacked the tank unit.

The German navy comes out of hiding sending a "feeler" cruiser to attack the carrier, after it is unpeeded a German u-boat pounce and brings it down to STR 2, anothe cruiser comes out to finish it off.

A crushing blow for the UK Navy as it gets a lesson in Naval tactics.

Germany ground units destoy another army and keep moving towards the capital but this time they stay away from a well prepare tank unit (must be that damn De Gaule!).

[Blashy]

Mid Nov 1939.

The UK Navy is getting a lesson in naval warfare.

After it repeatedly attacked a cruiser only damaging it 2 points, 2 cruisers, 1 BB and 1 carrier attacked but the gun laying radar tech level 1 my German navy has help survive the attack. (The 1 you see on the UK carriers is tech level 1 antisub warfare).

The attacked cruiser retaliates on the BB damages it a little and then moves to go along the english channel but gets a surprise encounter on the UK carrier and it gets damaged down to 2 STR.

Now that the carrier has been found, the other German cruiser moves in to attack and finaly the u-boat moves in to severly damage the carrier.

In France one more army is destoyed leaving the French vulnerable, no units are moved into Paris, they hope to have air power soften up the tanks in the city before going in with grunts.

Italy joins the Axis.

UK is asleep at sea. As the Italian navy hides in port, one in tobruk has a BB right next to it, it attacks, the battle goes 4-4 and the battleship runs away as another enters port and does another 4 damage while it takes 3.

The rest of the navy is hiding in Italian ports, trying to stay away from fighting the French and UK combined fleets.

[SeaMonkey]

OK guys, I'm going to make a little suggestion based on the way WaW build queue works, and I believe it is more realistic.

Once you have decided to purchase a unit and say that unit costs 120 MPPs and three turns to build, the game engine should automatically deduct 40 MPPs per turn from your accumulated MPP pool.

Now any time in that build period the player should be able to enter the build queue and say right click on the unit, highlighting it red, which delays the unit and returns the 40 MPPs for that turn back to your MPP pool. A left click returns the unit for normal production in the queue and automatically deducts the 40 MPPs.

Secondly, another right click on the unit, after it is highlighted as delayed(red) production a popup should occur, "You wish to disband this unit", with a yes or no selection the player makes the decision.

If the player chooses to disband an "in production" unit a certain percentage of the invested MPPs to that point should then be returned to the MPP pool.

Easy and realistic, not to mention the build strategy implications.

[ November 06, 2005, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

[SeaMonkey]

Hey Blashy...nice AAR. Please show us an example of the reinforcement feature. Also do you not have any units that may qualify for over-strengthening, one with experience?

Perhaps if that corps that stuck it nose into the Paris area had been 11 strength, you may not have lost him.

Is that the island of Crete I see just north of Tobruk with a port? I'm assuming that it has the potential to be active with an airbase and a naval contingent. Would naval repairs be elligible at the Crete port?

[Blashy]

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:

OK guys, I'm going to make a little suggestion based on the way WaW build queue works, and I believe it is more realistic.

Once you have decided to purchase a unit and say that unit costs 120 MPPs and three turns to build, the game engine should automatically deduct 40 MPPs per turn from your accumulated MPP pool.

Now any time in that build period the player should be able to enter the build queue and say right click on the unit, highlighting it red, which delays the unit and returns the 40 MPPs for that turn back to your MPP pool. A left click returns the unit for normal production in the queue and automatically deducts the 40 MPPs.

Secondly, another right click on the unit, after it is highlighted as delayed(red) production a popup should occur, "You wish to disband this unit", with a yes or no selection the player makes the decision.

If the player chooses to disband an "in production" unit a certain percentage of the invested MPPs to that point should then be returned to the MPP pool.

Easy and realistic, not to mention the build strategy implications.

That sounds like a good system, it means you can purchase units before saving up all the money, which simulates what usually occurs (bank loans, war bonds, etc...)

[Blashy]

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:

Hey Blashy...nice AAR. Please show us an example of the reinforcement feature. Also do you not have any units that may qualify for over-strengthening, one with experience?

Perhaps if that corps that stuck it nose into the Paris area had been 11 strength, you may not have lost him.

You get him to STR 11, it needs at least 1 bar of experience, it had not acquired this. Speaking of this, I really like this new system, if you have 3 bars it is only one elite reinforcement per turn, so 3 turns. It becomes a strategic decision since those units can not do anything else that turn. And a level 3 EF kicks ass, but as I said, 3 turns of one inactive unit can cost you.

Is that the island of Crete I see just north of Tobruk with a port? I'm assuming that it has the potential to be active with an airbase and a naval contingent. Would naval repairs be elligible at the Crete port?

It is Crete. I don't know about repairs, never tried but yes you could base an AF if you wish. You need Greece to be active or surrendered of course.

[SeaMonkey]

I like that one elite reinforcement a turn limitation. As I remember, Blashy, there are two types of reinforcements, green replacements, which deduct experience when incorporated into the unit, and veterans, which don't cost experience, right?

Are there any limitations on green replacements?

And could you, once again, explain the cost comparisons of the two replacement types and possibly any restraints a player would suffer, other than SC1 features, when applying reinforcements/replacements to units.

Thanks for a great job, that's inclusive to all the beta testers.

[Blashy]

There are not greens and veterans.

Only standard (like SC) and elite. The elite don't cost any experience and are only available if you have more than one bar of experience.

With that said, having the option to reinforce with greens or veterans would be a nice feature. You could may the veterans cost 30-50% (test it) and you woul not loose any experience.

I'll put this in the feature request thread of the beta, could be a possible add on through a patch.

[ November 06, 2005, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Blashy ]

[jon_j_rambo]

This game looks like a cakewalk for the Nazis, what's up with the Allies?

@Nix --- Dude, are you alive? Do you even exist?

[SeaMonkey]

Come on JJR, have you forgot your history, it was a cakewalk for the Germans in France.

Blashy, it might also be thought provoking to allow a greater amount of "green" reinforcements added per turn. You have one elite per turn, maybe a two green option per turn.

Come to think of it, this should be tied to the game turn length in weeks. One week turns = veteran/green, 1/2 strength point additions. Two week turns 2/4, 3 weeks = 3/6, 4 weeks = 4/8.

[jon_j_rambo]

@SMS --- No doubt, but Novemeber '39 beside Paris, Italy joins?

[John DiFool the 2nd]

I'll throw my 2 cents in on Rambo's side, since the

effects of weather (the main reason for the Phony

War) should make an early Western Campaign kind of

a slogging match, and favoring the Allies most

likely.

[Hubert Cater]

Not to worry guys, this is still beta stage and that early couple of months is still being tweaked (weather effects, unit OOB's) as we all know how critical the period between late 39 to mid 40 can be to the rest of the campaign.