Demo gripes, concerns, JUST CHILL!

[Yogi]

Ok you can all take turns jumping down my throat in this thread if you like.

IT'S A DEMO NOT THE GAME FOLKS!

Stop the endless gripes, concerns, suggestions and questions. A Demo is a teaser not a full product. Is something missing, why didn't ot do this, why did it do that etc. Perhaps one answer is it's not the full product it's a demo. Not rocket science here. Now I see why demos are not put out early or at all in many cases.

And yes it can go both ways, to complain about the game being poor from what little you can see on a demo is premature, as could be proclaiming the game as great from a few shots at a demo. I do put some validity to the wargamer review which seems based on more information.

I know we have been waiting a long time, and I figure a lot of this is just the chance to once again have something "real" to talk about. But let's be real as well. I will await the game (Yes I was one who pre-ordered) before I make up my mind. Still looks to me that most of us will be pleased.

I will close once again with what you can attack (better than attacking the game) IT'S A DEMO!

[J P Wagner]

Well you never know when an actual bug might be found within all the complaints and in fact there has been at least one discovered.....

[aesopu]

Free speech man!

[ASHBERY76]

I don't see a wave of trolls.Maybe you need to chill!

[Lars]

You're correct as far as play balance issues, little early for those.

But as far as interface and other issues, this is what you're going to get.

So criticism on that score is perfectly ok. We're just looking to help improve the final product here. That's why they have this Forum.

Remember though, no criticism without a possible solution please.

[Marky]

well said

wat u see in a demo is rarely wat u see in the full game

[hellraiser]

Excuse me but the very point of a demo is to provide a very accurate perspective of the full game so a potential customer can make a real choice to buy or not to buy, right?

Usually the full features for a single player game are enabled, a certain timelimit and campaign/scenario selection in place and the multiplayer aspect locked.

[Yogi]

You're excused.

[Ike99]

Hmmm....I don't get it.

No, a demo is not an entire game but it is a representative of a game. Right? Otherwise what would be the point?

[Mr.Dozer]

i agree IKE i was disapointed, how are you havent heard from you in a long time,

[Justanotherwargamer]

I'm with Yogi

Somne will be playing this demo ad naseum, perhaps in a desperate bid to just get something SC2ish to play.

Me, I've played it a handful of times, ok I've seen the game's demo, time to move on.

I am not going to make blanket statements about the game just yet, because all I have played is the demo, I haven't even seen the game mostly.

The game is naturally, based off the same code, but, I haven't been able to save, or buy units, or use the editor (of course not, it's not possible in the demo).

I can still recall the first SC demo. The game ended in a finite time span. Naturally, a person would be playing, and then nooooooooo! I just needed one more turn

Demos that allow you to just play the demo, and not require the game, to be amused, have essentially screwed up.

If you want to play, ya gotta pay.

[santabear]

All of these are good points, but the fact remains that if someone doesn't like the interface, the graphics or the general feel of the demo it's unlikely that they will like the game.

It's also true that there are some of us in here who had critical comments about SC1 that ultimately led to that game being refined somewhat.

It's not helpful to say "great game" when there are obviously some things that need to be refined. Rather, (as someone has pointed out) it's a good thing for folks in here to be honest about their concerns.

We all want the game to be successful with the largest possible audience, and getting some constructive criticsm will help make that happen.

So, yes, "it's just a demo," but Battlefront and Hubert stand to make or lose money based on how this demo is received. I think constructive criticism is helpful to everyone.

SB

[Yogi]

We all want the game to be successful with the largest possible audience, and getting some constructive criticsm will help make that happen.

So, yes, "it's just a demo," but Battlefront and Hubert stand to make or lose money based on how this demo is received. I think constructive criticism is helpful to everyone.

SB

Agreed, but I question how constructive some of the criticism is. I question how valid it is based on a demo only. I question how clear it is in some cases that we are talking about a demo and may be misread. Battlefront and Hubert do stand to make or LOSE money and I question if some of this discussion could potentially unfairly turn people away.

[StefMan]

Good point. The real strengths of SC2 will mainly show in the course of a full campaign (diplomacy, build queue etc.). The great achievement that I am hoping for - to break the cookie cutter and allow for more flexible strategies and many different courses of action - will only play out in a full game. Whereas the point that has drawn most criticism so far (tiles and perspective) is quite obvious for everybody to see in the demo.

So therefore people may have seen what for some is a major weakness in the game but the great many positives will only play out in the full game.

[Desert Dave]

So therefore people may have seen what for some is a major weakness in the game but the great many positives will only play out in the full game.

StefMan,

This is the "truest" statement or comment

I have read since the Demo came out. :cool:

It's rather like that other great observation

Made in another place, by santabear,

Where he mentioned how necessary

It is to have... "situational awareness."

Emerge the two of these sentiments

And the result is pure synergy,

Rather like... lying in

A field fullly covered in clover.

One might presume the WHOLE WORLD

Was MOSTLY clover

And skies, clouded, in shades of blue

Or countless possibilities, otherwise.

Or, should you be sleeping there,

Clover and... dreams of courageous conquest!

IE, keeping it in current context.

BTW, thank you also StefMan,

For... thanking... the Beta Testers.

The only one who has done so thus far,

Insofar as I know, I may be wrong,

Though, I've read every single post

Since, I am supposed to, no,

Actually,

Because I really enjoy

The well-spring of common discourse,

How varied and new!

And a'times sublime.

Not that we need recognition, nix nay,

But it was nice to hear all the same.

[Desert Dave]

Lars:

Remember though, no criticism without a possible solution please.

Mr.Dozer:

i agree IKE i was disapointed...

Hmmm, somehow?

These 2 observations don't

Quite square?

What was it, Mr.Dozer,

That you were disappointed about?

Then,

We could look into it?

Maybe even,

Offer up an "un-screwy perspective?"

LOL

[heretic]

'm in a dilemma. in the demo, i see little things that could improve it for me, 2-d hex map being the main thing. the problem is, i don't want to do anything or have anything happen that would further push back the release of sc2. i've been waiting for what seems to be years now for this game. sc1 is one of my favorite pc games. i'm old school and it fits. sc2 is THE game i want to be playing right now.

over the winter, i pulled out sc1 and spent another 4-6 weeks playing it. i probably have spent more time with that particular game running on my pc than any other game. civ would be a close second. i'm ready for sc2. i don't have to learn a new rules-set. i already know sc1 is good. i love its gameplay. so i've been waiting, and waiting, and waiting.

most suggestions i've read here are good ones. i'm sure they are being considered by the designer. but dang. i'm ready to play whether it's perfect or not. the demo was such a tease and i appreciate it immensely. i'm going to fire it up after i finish this post. but i want to take gibralter and squeeze the allies. i want to see if i can go across the even vaster soviet union and be victorious. i want to be the russians and bleed the germans dry as they try to conquer this vaster expanse. i want to buckle down in the early years as the allies and bide my time until it's my turn to go on full offensive. i want to try to coax turkey to my side and invade russia from that angle also. i want to be england, on my last legs, and sit up with eager anticipation when america enters the fray. i'm ready. no more delays. let's get going with this.

[Ike99]

This demo thing reminds me of some of the TV talk show host here in Argentina.

When they are the most watched program in the country they are ALWAYS on the TV saying "We are the most watched program on TV!! Yeah!!" Dah. Dah. Dah.

Yet when they have low ratings they ALWAYS say "We don't really care about ratings so much, every once in a while we might look at them." Dah Dah Dah, right?

And here, when a group such as the "wargamer" gives a good review of SC2, some people say "YEAH!! Look at this, we are great!"

Yet on the flip side when someone says "I didn't like the Demo" for whatever reason. The same people say "Well it is just a demo and..." Dah. Dah. Dah. Understand what I mean?

It's kinda humorous!

[Dave G.]

I understand that the demo is not the full game, but I'm disappointed in the visuals. The old map and overhead perspective of SC1 was far easier to work with in terms of playing the game instead of this 45 degree prespective. Plus, one could play SC in a lower resolution which may not mean much to young whippersnappers, but is important to older gamers. From my perspective, the "eye candy" of the new map and graphics adds little to the game and actually gets in the way. I wish there was an option that would allow you to go back to a SC1 view.

[Retributar]

Im 52 years old myself since March 25th...so im no whippersnapper myself, and ive played it all!, starting from board games, etc!.

I wished that a 'toggle option' was in place for those who prefer the overhead 2D asthetic view...even though, i myself, prefer what Hubert has created & i have no difficulty with the visuals or grasping the 'Strategic Situation' or the 45 degree view.

In my 'Fantasy World' i would have liked to have seen controls to be able to adjust the 45 degree perspective...if one wanted to, to help better grasp the game situation for those who need it!.

As well as a toggle to switch from 3D to 2D...even though i prefer 3D and the "eye-candy"!.

[santabear]

I've posted it elsewhere, but this is a good place to re-state this:

The current map has perspective problems (at least in the lowest resolution setting). In order to create proper perspective, the grid squares MUST get smaller as the map recedes into the distance (they don't--they're all the same size).

Visually the front (nearest) part of the current map seems to sit on a horizontal table. But moving further away (or toward the top), the map seems to curve upward so that distant objects are above the nearer ones, NOT BEHIND THEM WHERE THEY SHOULD BE if viewed on an angle.

In order to get the 45-degree perspecive properly, there also should be different sized figures--smaller in the distance, larger when nearer. (And why are the flags and parachutes larger than tanks and airplanes?)

I don't care if it's 2D or 3D, but right now it's neither (sort of 2.5D), and it's visually disturbing. Turning off the grid helps--then there is just the perspective problem of the size of the playing pieces--but hopefully this can be addressed in a later version somehow.

SB

[ April 08, 2006, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: santabear ]

[Kuniworth]

Im not sure tiles look good in 2D. Will be like playing the game on rows and rows of diamonds.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by Ike99:

And here, when a group such as the "wargamer" gives a good review of SC2, some people say "YEAH!! Look at this, we are great!"

Yet on the flip side when someone says "I didn't like the Demo" for whatever reason. The same people say "Well it is just a demo and..." Dah. Dah. Dah. Understand what I mean?

It's kinda humorous!

From the start of this post:

And yes it can go both ways, to complain about the game being poor from what little you can see on a demo is premature, as could be proclaiming the game as great from a few shots at a demo.

Glad to see you agree Ike, so I assume you aren't participating in either practice.

[pzgndr]

The current map has perspective problems... the grid squares MUST get smaller as the map recedes into the distance

Gee, I guess the top-down 2-D hexes in TOAW and CWiF should ALSO get smaller as you look toward the edges, shouldn't they?

Is there no nit too small to pick? Amazing.

[santabear]

Actually, Bill, the grid really drives me away from this game. It might be a small nit to you, but it will likely keep a die-hard SC1 fan from buying this game and that's very disappointing to me.

If you think that's small. OK.

I don't know about TOAW and CWIF--I'm talking about your game, and how I perceive it. And it's my money.

Bye,

SB