ned lud Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Anybody got some general hints and tips for playing night games? - Im about to embark on my first night PBEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned lud Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 oh .... and no comments about eating carrots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 - Try to figure out the maximum LOS for the light- and weather-conditions at hand. - Keep your platoons fairly tight together and within command. - Avoid running in unknown territory. - Watch out for friendly fire, because it isn't. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 As someone who just had their rear end handed to them in their first night QB, allow me! First off, buy little if any armor. It is relatively useless given the small range of vision. Use the money instead to buy more infantry. By a few zooks or shreks in case your opponent was foolish enough to waste points on armor. Also, realise that FOs will have very short range and may have a tendancy to blow themselves up since they have to get so close. Use the night to move your troops, in mass, to a spot and attack with maximum firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GenSplatton: As someone who just had their rear end handed to them in their first night QB, allow me! First off, buy little if any armor. It is relatively useless given the small range of vision. Use the money instead to buy more infantry. By a few zooks or shreks in case your opponent was foolish enough to waste points on armor. Also, realise that FOs will have very short range and may have a tendancy to blow themselves up since they have to get so close. Use the night to move your troops, in mass, to a spot and attack with maximum firepower.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This seems to me excellent advice. Regarding FOs, I'd abandon any attempt to get direct LOS on targets. Keep these guys out of harms way and simply identify some key enemy concentration with other troops and bring all your arty down on it. Don't worry about precision targeting. If you do buy armor, buy cheap armor. Your expensive Panther can get pretty easily flanked in the dark, and it can't stand off at range and pound away. Keep infantry in front of armor and use armor for infantry support. Your infantry is your main weapon. As Germans, you might as well buy SMGs, since their short range won't be a disadvantge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenfive2 Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 My 1st night game the other day. It didn't occur to me about the very limited LOS. The terrain was already blocking most LOS and I couldn't figure out why my spotter was always blocked no matter where he went. Man, I marched him all over the place looking for a target. (he never found one). After the game, I realized it was the darkness. Felt really foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Everything GenSplatton said is good advice. I'll elaborate a little more on my tactics: FO's are are hard to use. In a night battle there's a fine line between dropping rounds on the enemy and dropping them on your own guys. If you have a FO, chances are that you'll have to target areas out of his line of sight which will take the rounds a lot longer to come in. For this reason I'd stick to offboard mortars because of their smaller time to impact. Onboard mortars are useless. Buy lots of infantry. I can't stress that enough. Even better are the squads with mostly automatic weapons. All firefights will take place within 100 meters and automatic weapons pack a bigger punch at these ranges. Squads with satchel charges are good too. Keep your platoons tight, as if they were in the middle of a dense forrest. Machine guns will have to be even with your squads to be effective. Armored units are a mixed bag. I've had great success with open top vehicles, such as halftracks with the .50s, but they have to advance 5-10 meters behind a platoon of infantry to keep them safe from enemy squads. I think these open top vehicles have good sighting capabilities and the .50 adds good punch to an infantry advance. If you loose one, it's not too big a deal because of it's cheaper than a tank. Tanks are ok, but like I said, always have your infantry right in front of your tanks. Keep the tanks near the visibility limit. For example, if the visibility is 80 meters then keep your tank about 70-75 meters from known enemy units. This will allow your tank to fire but he can make a quick exit if a zook or shrek suddenly appears. Always keep your tanks unbuttoned if possible, this will help him spot sudden danger. German SP guns are blind, I wouldn't buy them. Tanks and armored cars with quick rotating turrets are better, this will help them quickly fire upon targets that appear suddenly. AT and infantry guns are almost useless. Only buy them if you know the enemy is going to come down a narrow passageway. Also expect to loose that gun. Zooks and Shreks should comprise most of your AT capability. Infantry with satchel charges, gammon bombs, and rifle grenades are usually effective againse lone or loosely supported vehicles; but don't rely on them as your only AT defense. Mines and Barbed wire could be very helpful if you're on defense. These will be harder to detect in the dim light. [ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Pak40 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeski Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Flamethrowers & Wasp's. Also get a HQ unit with +2 stealth and sneak in small increments. Everything else above is solid advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joeski: Flamethrowers & Wasp's. Also get a HQ unit with +2 stealth and sneak in small increments. Everything else above is solid advice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh yea, I completely forgot about flamethrowers. Finally these buggers come in handy with the close quarters of night fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Just to add regarding armor usage in nightfighting thoug my overall skills in it are still on the learning curve... A cheap infantry support tank would be the order of the night. A cheap, plain vanilla Sherman 75 would be quite efficient here. A '105 would be quite nice but just be a bit careful with the blast. Move your guys back a little. For the Germans, The various StuG variants are quite nice for this. IMO the 75mm's for both Axis and Allies are efficient for this since their blasts aren't large enough to affect your nearby troops. When taking armor, keep them back behind the infantry (about 25m maybe?). When the grunts find a strongpoint that needs to be removed, roll the armor up and deal with them. Your nearby grunts can provide alot of suppressive fire against any AT teams. As for the SMG squads that I generally don't like, yeah, they seem quite ideal here with such short LOS. This and fighting in the fog is their element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Cheap Sherms wouldn't be bad, but M8 HMCs might be even better. Dirt cheap, small, good rate of fire, decent protection, .50 cal, great against HT's and infantry, they make excellent "13th squad members" Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Another advice I forgot about: Avoid to use low quality troops! They're too likely to first shoot at their own pals and then rout... I think veteran is a good average to avoid the worst flaws. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene: Cheap Sherms wouldn't be bad, but M8 HMCs might be even better. Dirt cheap, small, good rate of fire, decent protection, .50 cal, great against HT's and infantry, they make excellent "13th squad members" Gyrene<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have been "schooled" on these things by Maxx, a/k/a John Caravella, over the past few weeks, and let me tell you these damned these are KILLER. They are small to begin with, but when operated by veteran crews, they are VERY hard to hit as they know when to get the hell out of dodge and back into cover. They are cheap and have a few hc charges which will even take Panthers out from the front side. In heavy cover, these things can approach your troops from numerous angles and then just scoot back out of LOS as soon as you bring anything in to take em out. From a few cursory tests, it appears the puma MAY be able to come close on a point for point basis to matching up with these things H2H, but that's about it. The downside to trying to match puma for m8 hmc unit to unit is that it is generally frowned upon in the community as the puma just wasn't a very common vehicle. Lynx? psw 243/1? forget it, frontal armour "kill chance = none". The psw 243/3 has a great gun, but without a turret the m8 is going to have quite an advantage in all but head on encounters. Quite a potent little critter for the buck. [ 05-30-2001: Message edited by: Agua ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeo Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Buy lots and lots of veteran sharp shooters. Have them sneak to scout enemy positions and then shadow them. I've had sharpshooters sneak for 3-5 minutes within 10 meters of enemy squads at night. Really helps to know where the enemy's going, so that one can set a few "surprises" for them. They are your night eyes. For 110 points you can get 5 veteran sharpshooters that can preform some damn fine stealthy recon over the majority of the map. Well worth the price in night battles, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted May 31, 2001 Share Posted May 31, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leeo: Buy lots and lots of veteran sharp shooters. Have them sneak to scout enemy positions and then shadow them. I've had sharpshooters sneak for 3-5 minutes within 10 meters of enemy squads at night. Really helps to know where the enemy's going, so that one can set a few "surprises" for them. They are your night eyes. For 110 points you can get 5 veteran sharpshooters that can preform some damn fine stealthy recon over the majority of the map. Well worth the price in night battles, IMHO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmmm... interesting way of doing nightfighting. A different approach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warmaker: Hmmm... interesting way of doing nightfighting. A different approach...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> yes it's interesting but it's also a little gamey IMO. Sharpshooters don't run around with radios to tell their CO's where the enemy troops are. But in defensive situations it was common practice to have small listening posts with phones/radios ahead of the MLR. Maybe BTS should make a listening post unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenfive2 Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 Hope somebody saves this... great thread. Will want to look it up later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 A half squad makes a good Listening Post. An dug in LP with a Target Reference Point in line of sight makes for a dandy little reception in a night battle. I was on the short end of this one once, and have used it with some good results since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 As far as being on the defense, using half squads are my third favorite option (1st:good sharpshooters. 2nd:LMG42 teams) for LPs/OPs. Sorry to hear about using Sharpshooters as OPs/LPs as gamey, gonna have to revise their usage for fairness. My only beef is that CMBO does not allow you to set engagement ranges for us semi-micromanagement types. There's nothing I hate more than to have my OPs/LPs begin firing at about 200m and thereby losing valuable intelligence gathering. I dunno, I was used to this from Talonsoft's East Front games. Anyhow, those halfsquads with the Germans are a two fold weapon if you have a half squad equipped with Panzerfausts... Listening Posts (LP) and Observation Posts (OP) are very useful on daytime operations. Information is a large part of victory and getting that vital information on a potentially chaotic night-time engagement is even more so. I can imagine a known player known to make bold moves can be even more problematic to handle if he/she's on the offensive on a night engagement. Again, getting this intelligence is even more critical so you don't fall for feignts and other such deception. My God, I just realized I haven't even tried handling a defense against a night assault, even against the A.I... it's gonna be educational to say the least... [ 06-01-2001: Message edited by: Warmaker ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned lud Posted June 1, 2001 Author Share Posted June 1, 2001 Thanks chaps! --50 vet sharpshooters it is then! (MONTY 2?? are you reading all this ? I certainly hope not.....) Are you ready? The fat lady stopped singing again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 50 veteran sharpshooters...You could play the whole game without being spotted and you never have to give a targetting order! I need to set a a night/fog QB like that versus the AI to see just how strange it would be. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty's Double Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 "Ach Hans, what I wouldn't give to be back in Hamburg with my little ones right now" "Shut it Klaus, you know every time a German sentry starts reminiscing about home that's when he gets his throat cut by some Tommy paratrooper. Klaus? Klaus?" 114th Volksgrenadier Mobile Panto Battalion is ready and waiting Ned. Bring it on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned lud Posted June 1, 2001 Author Share Posted June 1, 2001 Right Monty - On my mark go to amphicane. ----------- "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles,revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene: 50 veteran sharpshooters...You could play the whole game without being spotted and you never have to give a targetting order! I need to set a a night/fog QB like that versus the AI to see just how strange it would be. Gyrene<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How about 50 vet sharpshooters, 20 vet zooks, and three 81mm FOs against an strong infantry/armor force? If the sharpshooters/zooks/FOs were on defense they might be hard to beat. Guerrilla warfare comes to CM?? [ 06-06-2001: Message edited by: CombinedArms ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CombinedArms: How about 50 vet sharpshooters, 20 vet zooks, and three 81mm FOs against an strong infantry/armor force? If the sharpshooters/zooks/FOs were on defense they might be hard to beat. Guerrilla warfare comes to CM?? [ 06-06-2001: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Maybe add a veteran/elite infantry platoon or two for ambushes too? And take off before the enemy brings his strengths to bear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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