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Mast

Michael Wittmann was with the SS.

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In both CMBO and CMBB, the scenarios have Wittmann as Heer. Michael Wittmann was with the SS Division "Leibstandarte". When your at the main screen to pick a scenario or campaign, you see his name with the iron cross. It should be the SS runes. Can't believe the battlefront guys got it wrong again in CMBB! Look at the screen when you select a scenario and tell me what you see. I know it's a small error but twice. Don't get me wrong, I love both games. Going to play a game right now. :D

Mast

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Actually, in Normandy Wittmann commanded the 2nd company of the 101st SS Heavy Panzer Battalion, then became battalion commander after von Westernhagen was wounded. Wittmann was killed near Cintheaux on 9 Aug. while supporting a 12th SS counterattack.

Wittmann's 101st, 1st SS LAH, and 12th SS were all part of 1st SS Panzer Korps, so the confusion is understandable.

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Thanks for the response guys. I don't know how to make the change myself or I would have done it a long time ago for CMBB. That's the icon change of course. :(

Mast

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Here's a great painting on Wittman's Tiger during Villers-Bocage by Barry Spicer.

b_wittmann%27s_Tiger_I_in_Villers-Bocage.jpg

Got this from the Military Art Gallery.

Mast

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Originally posted by PaulS:

How exactly Wittman died ?

from aircraft , mine , AT gun

What, are u trying to start a grog flame war or something?! :D

Short answer, nobody knows for SURE.

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Originally posted by PaulS:

How exactly Wittman died ?

from aircraft , mine , AT gun

Killed by a Sherman... well Firefly, but still a Sherman of sorts. The gunner was a rookie who only ever gunned in 1 engagement in the war, and he bags the most famous Panzer Ace! (beginners luck I s'ppose).

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Originally posted by Panzer76:

Short answer, nobody knows for SURE.

Now that is a certain way to start a grog war!

AFAIK the only "witness" who "confirmed" the airstrike theory was a French farmer who wasn't around when it happened :D

[ October 28, 2002, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Foxbat ]

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Originally posted by Bakker@home:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lumbergh:

Somebody needs to tape a "shoot me" sign on that tank.

LOL :D </font>

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Serious answer - "there's a long thread aka flame war in the CMBO forum on this". Flippant answer "oh my God, here we go again!"

Only option I haven't heard before was the rooky gunner. I subscribe to the Northamptonshire Yeomanry theory myself, has a degree of consistancy, which I have never seen of the RAF theory (a previous discussion notwithstanding!)

However, I think 'not proven' is the PC answer! No FT attacks please (I am now a Molotov man myself!)

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I have an old copy of "After the Battle" magazine around somewhere that has an article about the magazine's team doing a search of the area where Wittmann is supposed to have perished. These guys apparently did their homework. They found the field and dug up distinctive Tiger I parts like track links and the turret air blower cover and (IIRC) at least one turret hatch. They also tracked down the battlefield burial spot where 3 of Wittmann's crew were buried after being located in the wreckage. The team subscribed to the theory that Wittmann was killed by several UK Shermans that surrounded the Tiger and pumped numerous rounds into it, eventually causing a catastrophic explosion that scattered the tank all over. Wittmanns remains were supposedly never found.

I'll try to find that article and will post what I can of it sooner or later if anybody cares.

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Originally posted by Mast:

Here's a great painting on Wittman's Tiger during Villers-Bocage by Barry Spicer.

b_wittmann%27s_Tiger_I_in_Villers-Bocage.jpg

Got this from the Military Art Gallery.

Mast

Gods, that's hideous.

Looks like the 'Terry Redlin/Wild Wings' school of military painting.

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To me it looks like that Tiger just came to the gate, then someone opened the game, the Tiger went through, then someone again closed the gate. Or, the Tiger has actually reversed through the forest road to the gate (there are track prints in front of the tank but not behind). Unfortunately none of them is looking to see what is behind. No wonder Germany lost!

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i read the division-histories of all ss-dividions. wittman died by an airstrike from a rocket. they were on the fiels, when wrecks were still there. the turret of the tiger was not on the hull, but some meter away. there wasn`t any hole in the armor except ONLY one on cover of engine. no gunner from any sherman can hit the top of the tank, esp the top over the engine. thatswhy and because of the size of the hole wittman`s tank was blown away from a rocket from aircrafts, which claim the succes too.

you should read "panzerkampf im bild" from will fey, tank commander in "Das Reich" and sSS-PzAbt. 501/101

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Conclusion is 1 Firefly gunner by name of Joe Elkins bagged 3 or 4 Tigers, including Wittman.

From that day on, he would be known as Joe "n00bIe F1r3fLY LAm3r" Elkins.

[ October 29, 2002, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Nippy ]

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Originally posted by Nippy:

[QBFrom that day on, he would be known as Joe "n00bIe F1r3fLY LAm3r" Elkins.[/QB]

Lol! :D

note to self: don't read Nippy's posts while drinking coffee...

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