Biltong's Campaign Rules goes 'GOLD'!!

[Lt Bull]

Sublime,

I also welcome and encourage this sort of effort to create a campaign style element to CM. I can't really remeber the last time I played against the AI but this system seems to make the experience of playing against the AI a bit more exciting and challenging.

I have only just tried to start my first campaign after going through the rules. I understand the main points, but, as you can see in an above post, I still have some questions. However I would be happy to also help you out. Im sure your questions would also help me better understand the finer details as well.

I will be happy to hear and try to answer your questions: lt.bull@optusnet.com.au

Lt Bull

[CeeBod]

Excellent stuff - I love playing campaigns. A stand-alone battle with no consequences other than win/lose can get boring quickly - particularly when playing the AI.

Now all I need is for someone to come up with a way of having more than 24hours in a day, so I can actually play through a full campaign! - Any suggestions?

[SuperSulo]

I added a hit counter and a download counter on my site, so we can get some idea of how many actually uses (well, at least downloaded) the BCR. If they are too annoying, TOUGH LUCK! Just kidding, say the word and I'll remove them.

Oh, I also put up a small program I wrote, I have no 10 sided die, and that "random number sheet" gave me a headache . No Mac version though. :/

[j0ker]

Not sure why there's so much pain finding ways to generate random #s, 1-10... slide on over to random.org and get with it! Make about 40-50 #s in a few columns and you're done!

personally, I've just completed the initial QB, and have been trying to determine whether I should go ahead with the immediate attack (as I've been fortunate enough to achieve Total V.) or go with the Favor points.... perhaps this is what the Favor score is originally intended for, as going back into battle in an attack situation with almost nothing in my Task Force is not the best scenario....

This is all good stuff, 3 cheers for Biltong and crew. As one who hardly has time to play CMBB anymore, let alone begin a PBEM that would stretch on till the summer, this makes me excited about playing the AI again.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Lt Bull:

…

#28 Large Battle has notes which say:

"Multiply each Task Force Category below with the applicable Multiplier or use the Minimum points allowance."

If for a particular Task Force Category, say #29 Infantry, I roll a "1", this corresponds to "None" points for infantry/support. If in #28 I rolled a "10" and had the x5 multiplier, what will be the resulting points for the infantry/support? Strictly peaking the "Minimum points allowance" is zero and 5x0=0.

Player Guide p 6 - Parameter 28 (Large Battle): “Now roll up the categories and then multiply the points obtained (if any) by the Large Battle multiplier. If the final (category) points are less than the minimum allowed, use the minimum.”

Added the following to make it clearer: “Example: You got 9 for Large Battle and then roll1 for Infantry/Support = None. In this case the Minimum allowed for Large Battle (300) applies. You now roll 7 for Vehicles and get 120 x 3 for Large Battle = 360. Use this (360) since it’s more than the minimum of 300.”

…When deciding the size of your Taskforce, you roll individually for how much infantry/support, vehicle, armor, arty and air points. All these points are added up and a Provisional Force Size is calculated from which you round up to find the Force Size (which is used in the QB Generator). You then go to the QB Generator to have it automatically select your Taskforce based on the parameters and Force Size rolled for earlier. However, the QB Generator does not spend the points according to the infantry/support, vehicle, armor, arty and air points you determined earlier.

eg. I may have rolled for 25pts of infantry/support and 500pts of arty (total of 525 pts) but when the QB selects the units, it selects ALL infantry/support.

How is this controlled?

In this case you are ‘lucky’. See the note in 49:” If the QB generator does not generate enough (or any) units in a category for which you have Purchase Points - don't worry. This is sorted out later in your favor ”

And

Note 12 – Generating the real battle: “If you have points left after buying all the units generated for a category or if you have points left, but not enough to buy a specific unit, you can choose what you want to buy from the normal QB unit list (in that category only) until you have used up the purchase points for that category.”

Added the following to the Player Guide: “Note that quite often the QB won’t generate enough forces in a specific category. In that case you are lucky since you get to choose what you want to buy. See Note 12 – Generating the Real Battle.”

One other thing is the use of the term "if the die result is an 'x'" in the notes. eg. #33 "Large Arty - only if the die result is a 9 in the Arty/Air above".

Does this refer to the modified or unmodified die roll?

Modified – added that to the rules as well.

Thanx for all the feed back – Keep it up. I’ll adjust the Player Guide/Rules as you guys find areas that are not clear enough.

Biltong

[Biltong]

Originally posted by History Buff:

The new core sheet. Where Scrounged units are it's got section HQ and MG Team's 1 and 2. Where in the rules does it say scrounged units have to be MG's? I thought they could be anything which fit the unit profile of the core sheet and was to the value of the scrounged unit pts you had????

Don't say I can't have my lovely captured T-34 41 Model

My men fought hard for that and it took a bit of saving of pts to.

"Scrounged Units" Wow - that was 4? versions ago... The MG section comes with the Motorized Inf Co. It's not part of the Task Force or an Attached Unit

Just below it is a row with a 'Note 8' in it.

Note 8 says: "Enter Attached Units, Extra Squads, Teams, etc. here - add more lines as you need them."

The Player Guide also has this entry under Battle Group Sheet: "Within the rows are two major groupings: Infantry Company and Armor. Both of these have a row containing a ‘Note 8’. Extra rows can be inserted here so that you can enter any Attached Units that you might obtain after battles.

[Biltong]

As you might have noticed: History Buff a bit higher up mentioned that he had a Captured T35 as an Attached Unit. Strictly against the Rules since BCR only allow you to have Inf/Support or Vehicles!!

Why didn’t I jump on him?

This might be a good time to introduce new players to

BCR’s Goals

“BCR’s Goal is to:

1. Enable players to play a Campaign from June 41 through all of the CMBB terrain until the final day of battle in Berlin.

2. Make sure that the Campaign never becomes Boring – the difficulty must increase, it must be varied and the Campaign must end in a climax.

3. Keep the Campaign as Historically accurate as possible.

4. Keep it short and simple enough to allow most players to understand and use it.

5. Enable anyone to Expand or Modify BCR to his own taste.

6. Provide Excitement, Tension and just good old-fashioned Fun!

BCR is just for yourself… the battle is between yourself and an enemy who grows stronger every year… You will have to become a better commander for you and your men to survive till the end.”

To get back to the T34 – Read 5 again: ‘Expand or modify’ to your hearts desire

In fact – one of the BCR Team guys, Apache has developed a whole ‘Expansion Pack’ where you play with a SS Armoured Panzer Grenadier Battalion (Pz) amongst other things.

So feel free – This is one place where Anarchy Rules

If you like the idea of a really large campaign – e-mail Apache apopen@ntlworld.com : He would love to hear from you.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Sublime:

Biltong-

I think that this campaign idea is one of the best to ever come out of the CM community ...

Thank You Sir

I only vaguely understand the rules, have only the foggiest idea of how to set up the spreadsheets, have no idea where to find the die, and am utterly confused. Is there another set of intstructions or could you help me out somehow? ......

You don't mention the Player Guide.. That is key for new players. Just reading the rules will confuse Confusius

The Excel File comes with 5 sheets - see the tabs at the bottom of the 1st sheet(the Random Die Numbers is one of them). Print the Excel sheets: Rules; Battle Group; Parameters and Random Die sheets - Don't worry about Favor - you will only use it after your battle. The Player Guide is a seperate Word Doc - print that as well.

Using the Player Guide as a guide , start with Parameter 1 and carry on... Don't worry about reading it through 1st... Just do it. Once you've rolled up your 1st battle everything should fall into place and how everything fits together will be a lot clearer (I hope)

p.s. any plans for a Soviet campaign in the future? Dont get me wrong though, stick with the Axis one, I cant wait to play some Stalingrad battles and the bitter defense of Berlin in the future will be excrutiating ecstasy.... ahhh fond memories (well.. some) of CC3 grand campaign multiplayer =D

I've still got 14 others to do - South 42 to 45; Central and North 41 - 45. I doubt that I will get to the Allied side before CMIII. The rules are very stable now and to modify them for the Allieds should be very easy - Maybe some enterprising guy will take it upon himself...? With my full blessing

[Biltong]

Originally posted by CeeBod:

Excellent stuff - I love playing campaigns. A stand-alone battle with no consequences other than win/lose can get boring quickly - particularly when playing the AI.

Now all I need is for someone to come up with a way of having more than 24hours in a day, so I can actually play through a full campaign! - Any suggestions?

Load it up on a Laptop and fly around the world -

East to West, I think

[Apache]

Reverse engineered Soviet version already underway. May take some time though. SS Pz Gr is currently blasting through 41 with a vengeance. Soviets are JUST about to get hit with a full Pz Bn!!!

[Biltong]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

I added a hit counter and a download counter on my site, so we can get some idea of how many actually uses (well, at least downloaded) the BCR. If they are too annoying, TOUGH LUCK! Just kidding, say the word and I'll remove them.

Oh, I also put up a small program I wrote, I have no 10 sided die, and that "random number sheet" gave me a headache . No Mac version though. :/

For G-Sake Super - I told you how many times: You dont have to add up all those numbers - you just use them as is!!

Oh I like this!!:

"In case anyone wants it: My super-duper Die program (100% realistic die simulator DELUXE, )...

Very curious to see the download tots... will peep in - good idea

[ February 10, 2003, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[Apache]

Nice one SS.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by j0ker:

Not sure why there's so much pain finding ways to generate random #s, 1-10... slide on over to random.org and get with it! Make about 40-50 #s in a few columns and you're done!

That's what I did in fact - I was too lazy to tell the guys how to do it, so I just included a sheet with a couple of hundred numbers

See the tabs at the bottom of the Excel sheet guys!!

personally, I've just completed the initial QB, and have been trying to determine whether I should go ahead with the immediate attack (as I've been fortunate enough to achieve Total V.) or go with the Favor points.... perhaps this is what the Favor score is originally intended for, as going back into battle in an attack situation with almost nothing in my Task Force is not the best scenario....

Use the favor when you've got it... You might lose it next battle - Or your CO might catch you with his wife

[Apache]

I'd really like to thank Manstein and other map designers who have made the rules much more enjoyable. Excellent having 'Probe' maps with set-up zones dotted around to allow for 'point' units ahead of the main force. The rules were excellent before but are even better with the map-on pack. I've yet to play a battle where the map is a) crap and/or easy. These maps seem to allow the AI to be even tougher. Nice one guys.

[Biltong]

Apache - You just gave me an idea (AGAIN!)

Once you have a Allied version of the rules we'll be able to play a PBEM/human opponent campaign for the next 20 years! Each side takes turns to roll up what type of battle/force size etc and off you go!! Will need some ajustments, but it should be quite easy...

You on for a g......a.......m.......e

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Apache:

... These maps seem to allow the AI to be even tougher. Nice one guys.

Oy!! Didn't want that to leak out, but since you've mentioned it - yep

[Apache]

Oh yessssssssss. don't mind if I dilute the chances of 'Naval' some do you? Them Destroyers just keep bloody bogging!!!

One of the guys that asked for the Bn level rules asked if I could look at a Soviet set and I do know a acouple of Soviet walking encyclopaedias who are happy to help out. It certainly looks good from the AI front, even better when the rules can be used for PBEM with a Soviet side rolled up to match their 'potency' for the time. Not so hot in 41 perhaps, a bit smokey in 42 - 43!! Somebody Stopppppppp me!!!!

Several people have asked in mails to me, just to clarify the battalion version allows UP TO battalion level actions, often your battles are around the 1,000 - 1,250 mark (1500 - 2,000 if playing the SS outfit). I'm not too keen on the mega 3,000 points battles either. This version just allows you 'ownership' of a battalion plus support and you select the force you need based on the mission you roll up.

[ February 10, 2003, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Apache ]

[Biltong]

Play Testers Wanted

Peter Molloy has just finished with the 1st two days worth of maps for the Kiev City Battle pack.

See Rules mods below.

These maps are truly great!! Beautiful! is the right word. Now we need testers to give some feedback re flags/setup zones and game length...

If you're interested - send me a mail. The rules changes below will give you an idea:

Note (1) Date:

" Between 15 and 19 September (Sept.; Week 3; Day 1 to Week 3; Day 5) go to Appendix B Kiev – City

Battle.”

Appendix B Kiev – City Battle

Your Battle Group takes part in the Battle of Kiev. The battle takes place over 5 days.

....

For day one choose the closest map (depending on the parameters you rolled up) from the Outskirts' group of maps in the Kiev Map Pack.

Day 2: " Suburbs"

Day 3: "Worker's Paradise”

Day 4: "Urban Chaos"

Day 5: "Bridges of Blood"

Note that ME's are not allowed - a ME automatically becomes an Axis Assault and Day 5 will always be an Axis Assault.

Do not roll up the Infantry/Support (29) and Armor (31) for your Task Force. Instead you are assigned a company of Pioneers and a platoon of Stugs to support your Battle Group.

German - Mechanized:

Motorized Pioneer Company (572 points);

Platoon of 3 x Sturmgeschutz IIIB (205 points)

In case of a Large Battle (28) the multipliers there would apply to the Pioneers and IIIB’s as well. Carry on with the rest of the rules as per normal.

Biltong biltong@betrim.co.za

[Lane]

To Biltong,

or whoever

This all sounds good

I known this sounds dumb. but what are Parameter's

of the Rule set? and Random Die numbers?

were do you set all this up.? QB? or using the

Editor? I have made QB and played battles that I

have downloaded.

thank's for any basic info.

Regards

Lane

[Sublime]

Biltong,

very cool to see you have a die program, solves one of my problems =D

Unfortunately the file your site links to doesnt work once downloaded..?

[Apache]

Biltong,

1) You can mail me the Kiev's for testing (I like garlic vesion )

2) Just a thought for the 42. How about rolling for arty support request? Perhaps roll and get:

1-2: Request denied

2-5: 1 Battery (1 x FO)

6-7: 2 Battery (2 x FO)

8-9: Battalion level (3 x FO)

10: Regiment(2 x 105 FO + perhaps 1 x 150 etc)

[ February 11, 2003, 04:34 AM: Message edited by: Apache ]

[Lt Bull]

Originally posted by Biltong:

Added the following to make it clearer: “Example: You got 9 for Large Battle and then roll1 for Infantry/Support = None. In this case the Minimum allowed for Large Battle (300) applies. You now roll 7 for Vehicles and get 120 x 3 for Large Battle = 360. Use this (360) since it’s more than the minimum of 300.”

Ahh!! Now I see what you meant by "minimum" . I didn't notice the "Minimum" values printed in the Options column.

Your notes say "If you roll 7 to 10 you will multiply each of the following Task Force categories by the applicable multiplier. Now roll up the categories and then multiply the points obtained (if any) by the Large Battle multiplier. If the final (category) points are less than the minimum allowed, use the minimum."

To furterh avoid confusion the final sentence could be reworded to say: "Compare the multiplied points value to the corresponding Minimum points allowed listed in #28. Use the larger value."

Originally posted by Biltong:

In this case you are ‘lucky’. See the note in 49:” If the QB generator does not generate enough (or any) units in a category for which you have Purchase Points - don't worry. This is sorted out later in your favor ”

And

Note 12 – Generating the real battle: “If you have points left after buying all the units generated for a category or if you have points left, but not enough to buy a specific unit, you can choose what you want to buy from the normal QB unit list (in that category only) until you have used up the purchase points for that category.”

Added the following to the Player Guide: “Note that quite often the QB won’t generate enough forces in a specific category. In that case you are lucky since you get to choose what you want to buy. See Note 12 – Generating the Real Battle.”

It appears that this implies that it doesn't matter what numbers you roll for each individual category in #29-#35 as the QB picks what it wants to from the total points.

eg. I rolled for a large battle x5 multiplier for my first battle. I then got the following points for each category:-

Battle Group: 635 (standard for 1st Battle)

Infantry/support: 500

Vehicle: 500

Armor: 500

Arty: 3500

TOTAL: 5653

Provisional: 3287 rounded up to Force Size: 5000

An assualt was rolled for the first battle.

When I got the QB Generator to pick my units, I plugged in all the appropriate parameters (Nationality: Romanian; Force Mix: Infatry; Diviosn Type: Security; Quality: Low quality; Fitness: Fit) and set the Force Size to 5000.

The QB generator came up with the following units:

23 Infantry Companies!!! (basically 5 and a bit battalions worth, a mix of Rifle, Motorized, Cavalry and Hvy Wpns companies)

1x81mm FO

3x75mm FO

4x105mm FO

I definitely have MUCH more than 500 points of Infantry/Support and MUCH less than 3500 points of arty.

So here I have 2 questions:

1) This is a dauntingly huge number of units to play with. Are Task Forces of this size expected in BCR or have I done something wrong somewhere?

2) I can't see the relevance of rolling for each Task Force unit type category in #29-#35 when earlier on (#18-#25) it was determined what the Task Force Parameters were (Force Mix, Division Type etc) for the QB Generator to automatically pick the Task Force units.

Using #18-#25 already specifies the parameters that determines the kind of force mix you can expect the QB Generator to select. Given my above situation, how is rolling for #29-#35 relevant when it is entire independant of whatever QB Generator parameters were rolled for in #18-#25?

Unless I missed something, I also am somewhat confused by the Force Size used when you first auto select the Task Force using the QB Generator as opposed to the Force Size specified when actually manually selecting your units in the real QB. I would expect these values to be different. :confused:

Shouldn't the Force Size when auto QB selecting the Task Force just be derived from (using the Provisional Force Size calculation) the size of the Task Force that was rolled for in #29-#35, whereas the Force Size when manually selecting for the real battle be derived on the Battle Group (635 points) and Task Force values (#29-#35) combined?

Lt Bull

[Bartokomus]

i obviously must fall to the bottom of the intelligence category. i feel mostly lost as i try to understand some of the ways of implementing the concepts in the parameters. i played the first battle, but i am not cetain i did it right. but i used one of the maps in the map pack and it was a damn good time. my question is this: would you like me to post my stupidity for all to see, and thereby anyone else to be helped, or may i email one of you "old hands"? thank you

Murray

[j0ker]

...it would seem to me, as a web developer, that Biltong's hard work would transfer especially well to an online form that could be able to generate the random numbers, crunch the different attributes, etc, and spit out a summary page which the player would then be able to apply to the next battle (for both QBs).....

also being more of a front-end developer (read: it would take me about 80 hrs to wade thru the logic alone), I'm not necessarily offering to do this, but it would just seem natural to be able to get this online...

anyone willing to tackle this? Or is this currently being produced?

-j0ker

[SuperSulo]

Originally posted by Sublime:

Biltong,

very cool to see you have a die program, solves one of my problems =D

Unfortunately the file your site links to doesnt work once downloaded..?

Actually, it's I who have the die program... Biltong is innocent!

It doesn't work? What happens? It must be some library that's missing. I'll see if I can fix it. It's a bit difficult though, since it works fine on my PC.