Average Height of German and Russian Troops

[rexford]

I know it's a subject full of special cases but has anyone seen anything on the average height of WW II infantry, particularly German and Russian?

[Holman]

It depends on which source you consult and when they were published. In late 1941, for instance, Russian sources list German soldiers as 10 feet tall, and official Nazi propaganda outlets concur with this average. In 1945, however, German refugee accounts describe Russian soldiers as at least 9 feet tall, while Goebbels' late broadcasts propose an average of seven feet, but stooped at the shoulder.

[stikkypixie]

That's over three meters :eek: !

[tar]

And if studies show a systematic height difference, should this be reflected in the chances of causing casualties? I mean, shorter soldiers must be harder to hit -- although you might also need to take weight into consideration.

[Sergei]

The thickness of their boot soles should also be taken into consideration. Poorly supplied men should be harder to hit, because their boots have worn out.

[farmerch]

really? the condition of the boot should only be taken into account when moving through forest, I think

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by tar:

And if studies show a systematic height difference, should this be reflected in the chances of causing casualties? I mean, shorter soldiers must be harder to hit -- although you might also need to take weight into consideration.

Shorter soldiers don't run as fast - they fatigue more by carrying the same weight as taller soldiers. Thus they are easier to hit.

Andreas can provide the references and JasonC will have the mathematics to prove me 100 percent correct on this point.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

I think we're forgetting an important component: would height affect one's ability to carry a bren tripod? Surely a shorter soldier, needing to carry the tripod higher in his arms, would thus be fatigued far more than would a taller soldier.

[Holman]

What's needed is a two-man team: one short, one tall. The tall one acts as the gunner while the short one serves as a tripod.

[Michael Emrys]

Shorter soldiers don't do as good a job at spotting, especially in grain, tall grass, and brush. All soldiers under fire tended to crouch over and thus do not spot as well either. On the other hand, both short and crouching soldiers should get a stealth bonus.

Michael

[Jack Carr]

I was speaking with a GD veteran recently. He is a tall fella, approximately 6'2" tall. He was in the infantry. He mentioned that he was in a lineup during training and the taller men were assigned to infantry while the shorter men were assigned to the panzer corps.

What the height cutoff was I don't know, I didn't ask him. He didn't really say if this was common practice. Anyway, this from memory recall of a veteran.

[Holman]

I know that this was true of airborne troops as well. Being taller, they reached the ground before their shorter brethren, who had farther to fall.

On the landser: Research captured at war's end suggests that, since a few soldiers lost legs in combat, the *average* German infantryman had 1.998 legs. Left boots were shortened accordingly.

[ May 03, 2004, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Martyr ]

[Pud]

And of course the well proven fact short people on ski's travel faster in snow due to less wind resistance.

[JasonC]

Actually, Michael is 92% correct, not 100%. Meanwhile, short people have no reason... But on the other hand, people over 6' 4" tall typically fall over spontaneously and can't tie their boot laces. The optimal height for a combat infantryman is 5' 8' to 6' 2", except on alternate Tuesdays in May, when an extra inch helps. People who have been sawed in half by machinegun fire are shorter than average. People hit directly by 150mm and larger HE are the shortest of all. Except in wooded terrain, if the max height method is used.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Jack Carr:

...the taller men were assigned to infantry while the shorter men were assigned to the panzer corps.

If you think about it a second, there's a pretty obvious reason for that. It's pretty cramped inside an AFV, so shorter men would be able to fit in and move around more easily. Especially important for loaders, but I imagine the rest of the crew would appreciate being less cramped as well.

Michael

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Pud:

And of course the well proven fact short people on ski's travel faster in snow due to less wind resistance.

OTOH heavy men travel faster and the increase of size results in a 2-dimensional surface yet a 3-dimensional body thus the cubed weight outweighs the squared wind resistance and thus we have yet again that with equal proportions tall men travel faster.

Gruß

Joachim

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jack Carr:

...the taller men were assigned to infantry while the shorter men were assigned to the panzer corps.

If you think about it a second, there's a pretty obvious reason for that. It's pretty cramped inside an AFV, so shorter men would be able to fit in and move around more easily. Especially important for loaders, but I imagine the rest of the crew would appreciate being less cramped as well.

Michael </font>

[JasonC]

Well, it is a well established fact that men become smaller under fire. One can crawl completely inside one's helmet, for example, if one just shrunches up enough. And a rock the size of a soccer ball can completely hide a man through at least a 60 degree arc. On the other hand, when shooting, men expand to frightening proportions, making them much easier to spot.

[Andreas]

Von Mellenthin, commenting on the closeness to nature of the Russian peasant-soldier, observes that the tendency of the Soviets to use rabbit holes to undertunnel the German lines and sit out artillery bombardments, made dealing with them difficult later in the war. Their ability to thus easily capture rabbits made them into formidable enemies, both trained in rapid rabbit assault (RRA) and well-nourished.

Two things are clear from this reference:

a) Early in the war (when the Germans were winning), the Russian soldiers were taller, because they did not use the rabbit holes.

German soldiers were always too tall to give chase in rabbit holes.

c) Russia is full of rabbits. Hmmmmm, rabbit...

If you get yourself a tape measure, and go out in the garden, you can measure the maximum height of the late-war Soviet soldier.

[Sergei]

Would pulling someone's leg make him taller?

[stikkypixie]

Not necesarilly, if one leg is much longer than the other, he would lean over to the shorter side, even to the point that he is smaller than before you pulled his leg.

[RawRecruit]

Also, pulling his leg might make the bells sound, thus radically increasing his likelihood og being spotted!

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Andreas:

Von Mellenthin, commenting on the closeness to nature of the Russian peasant-soldier, observes that the tendency of the Soviets to use rabbit holes to undertunnel the German lines and sit out artillery bombardments, made dealing with them difficult later in the war. Their ability to thus easily capture rabbits made them into formidable enemies, both trained in rapid rabbit assault (RRA) and well-nourished.

Two things are clear from this reference:

a) Early in the war (when the Germans were winning), the Russian soldiers were taller, because they did not use the rabbit holes.

German soldiers were always too tall to give chase in rabbit holes.

c) Russia is full of rabbits. Hmmmmm, rabbit...

If you get yourself a tape measure, and go out in the garden, you can measure the maximum height of the late-war Soviet soldier.

Your third (out of two) point is not valid - Russian rabbit population in areas occupied by Germany in late war is almost completely void of rabbits until recently. Despite relentless efforts and incentives by the Soviet government (operation rapid rabbit raising) the rabbits were unable to cope with the horrenduous losses suffered at the hands of the advancing Soviet armies.

Soviet soldiers not hiding in rabbit holes in the early years is partially due to a non-aggression pact between the Union of Soviet Rabbits and the USSR. Soviet soldiers did not enter the territory of the foxholes and German soldiers risked their life as the Soviets supplied lots of weapons to the rabbits. Actually, it was the rabbits that ultimately stopped the German juggernaut. the Hamstergrenadiere - as often portrayed on this board - had their origins in fighting the rabbits on their home turf but were unable to survive the harsh Sovier winter.

Gruß

Joachim

[ May 05, 2004, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: Joachim ]

[c3k]

Gents,

Well, obviously they were, on average, THE SAME. However, due to a lack of sources with incontrivertable proof, BF.C has chosen to model the Soviets as 85% the size of the Germans. According to JasonC, this is typical of the pro-German slant of BF.C.

(My apologies for putting words in JasonC's mouth.)

Ken

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Joachim:

the Hamstergrenadiere - as often portrayed on this board - had their origins in fighting the rabbits on their home turf but were unable to survive the harsh Sovier winter.

I am sorry comrade, but am I reading you right in saying that the superior fighting prowess bestowed by steeping in Soviet doctrine had nothing to do with stopping the Hamstergrenadiere?

Time for a spot of re-edification, methinks? Just wait, I have a nice hammer here to keep you company down in the coal-mine for the next, uh, 25 years or thereabouts.