There is no such thing as "Blitzkrieg"

[Andreas]

Naa, we are all pretty much agreed that you are Lewis. How is that dozer simulation coming along?

[flamingknives]

Exorbitant.

[K.A. Miles]

Hear Hear! Let's settle this issue like gentlemen:

Dorosh vs. Wartgamer - let's see it! Some type of meeting engagement would be good, with plenty of room to manuever. Wartgamer can demostrate his version of the popular tactic known as "blitzkrieg", while Dorosh can demonstrate his own set of tactics that are notably "anti-blitzkrieg".

[Gpig]

Where can I pre-order!?

[Wartgamer]

I CHALLENGE THE LITTLE SEAMSTRESS!!!!

If I win, he has to sew himself a little bo beep dress and wear it and post a picture on his canadian website under the title 'Canadian Comfort-Girl'.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by K.A. Miles:

Hear Hear! Let's settle this issue like gentlemen:

Dorosh vs. Wartgamer - let's see it! Some type of meeting engagement would be good, with plenty of room to manuever. Wartgamer can demostrate his version of the popular tactic known as "blitzkrieg", while Dorosh can demonstrate his own set of tactics that are notably "anti-blitzkrieg".

It's a good idea, but I don't derive my feeling of self worth from how well I play a videogame. Nor do I feel my contributions to this board - or anyone's for that matter - can be measured that way.

Although, I'd be interested in seeing your proposed set up. Better yet - set up two games with identical parameters and take us on one at a time in each.

[K.A. Miles]

Well, I suppose we could run it that way. Then we could compare how badly I LOSE in each game! Seriously, I'm still a novice (and I only have 31 posts on the forum *gasp*), and playing against me would not decide anything (besides that I'm a loser, and I already admit that! ).

What I had in mind was more of a "duel" type game. You and Wartgamer head-to-head. A third party "game moderator" (and I'm not volunteering, BTW) would design or pick a balanced scenario, and then monitor your PBEM progress. The results of the game would be posted by the moderator on the forum, making the results public.

This would have nothing to do with anyone's self worth, or respect. The point of this duel would be challenging an opinionated man that you personally find repulsive.

OK, Wartgamer, you blew it. You had a perfect opening to issue an honorable challenge, and you made it into a crude joke. I don't like you, or your style, but I don't like Dorosh either (there, I said it, I dislike you both! ) If both of you are serious about this, issue a SERIOUS challenge. Such as:

If Wartgamer loses, he will add "Blitzkrieg is an utter myth." to his signature for one full year.

Yeah, the example is lame, so be creative and make it hurt. Just don't lower yourself any further by issuing crude, unreasonable demands.

Edit: and yes, I think dueling should still be legal. :eek:

[Guest ExplodingMonkey]

I'll try to get a pay-per-view deal set up.

At $50 a head we should be able to make hundreds!

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by K.A. Miles:

Well, I suppose we could run it that way. Then we could compare how badly I LOSE in each game! Seriously, I'm still a novice (and I only have 31 posts on the forum *gasp*), and playing against me would not decide anything (besides that I'm a loser, and I already admit that! ).

You'd probably still best me. Like I said, I suck. Just not in every sense of the word.

It's a pity you don't like me. Your 31 posts have been gems.

Do you think you could build an ever-lasting white-hot hatred of me? I've been shopping around for a Mortal Enemy who isn't a complete dullard for some time now. I think you have personality,and your posts have pizzazz. Unlike some of the others in this thread who pretend to hate me yet seem unable to talk about me in the second person.

I think I'd like a Stalker who talked about me in the first person. I've not yet experienced that. If you could do that, while inculcating a true, passionate dislike of me, I'd be most grateful.

So - are you strong enough to hate me like I feel I deserve?

[PseudoSimonds]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by K.A. Miles:

Well, I suppose we could run it that way. Then we could compare how badly I LOSE in each game! Seriously, I'm still a novice (and I only have 31 posts on the forum *gasp*), and playing against me would not decide anything (besides that I'm a loser, and I already admit that! ).

You'd probably still best me. Like I said, I suck. Just not in every sense of the word.

It's a pity you don't like me. Your 31 posts have been gems.

Do you think you could build an ever-lasting white-hot hatred of me? I've been shopping around for a Mortal Enemy who isn't a complete dullard for some time now. I think you have personality,and your posts have pizzazz. Unlike some of the others in this thread who pretend to hate me yet seem unable to talk about me in the second person.

I think I'd like a Stalker who talked about me in the first person. I've not yet experienced that. If you could do that, while inculcating a true, passionate dislike of me, I'd be most grateful.

So - are you strong enough to hate me like I feel I deserve? </font>

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by PseudoSimonds:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by K.A. Miles:

Well, I suppose we could run it that way. Then we could compare how badly I LOSE in each game! Seriously, I'm still a novice (and I only have 31 posts on the forum *gasp*), and playing against me would not decide anything (besides that I'm a loser, and I already admit that! ).

You'd probably still best me. Like I said, I suck. Just not in every sense of the word.

It's a pity you don't like me. Your 31 posts have been gems.

Do you think you could build an ever-lasting white-hot hatred of me? I've been shopping around for a Mortal Enemy who isn't a complete dullard for some time now. I think you have personality,and your posts have pizzazz. Unlike some of the others in this thread who pretend to hate me yet seem unable to talk about me in the second person.

I think I'd like a Stalker who talked about me in the first person. I've not yet experienced that. If you could do that, while inculcating a true, passionate dislike of me, I'd be most grateful.

So - are you strong enough to hate me like I feel I deserve? </font>

[K.A. Miles]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Hmmmm.... Let me consider that.... uh.... no, sorry. I can't hate you enough. Not yet, anyway.

Give me a few years. I'll keep you posted on my emotional level, every now and again. I've got a special place in my brain for you, maybe it will fester and develop a gruesome inflammation if given enough time.

Now, about your challenge to Wartgamer: What can I put you down for???? :confused:

[PseudoSimonds]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Do you have any idea how hurtful it is not to see a single mad smiley in your post? :mad: Are you trying to reduce me to tears? Do you not see my life is in CRISIS right now? Not a single worthy adversary in this thread and you see fit to not only mock and berate me, but openly insult me with your fawning praise?

You took praise from an Ontarian literally? My, my, you are the naive little country bumpkin, aren't you.

Hey! Look over there, the Queen is visiting!

*pinches Dorosh's credit cards while he's distracted*

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Easterners. Bah! I could never have an Eastern Creep and Bum for a Mortal Enemy so don't even try to slip in under the radar. The velvet glove doesn't work with this Albertan. :mad:x2

Not to worry. My hatred is reserved solely for the Axe. ...and the rest of the CWT. ...and George Lucas. ...and our government. ...and the NHL. ...and Cumulonimbus clouds. ...and, well, you get the picture. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

<font size =1>P.S. - Blitzkrieg rules. </font size>

[roqf77]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm this post has sariously deteriorated.

only one thing for it...

SHEPARDS PIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[roqf77]

sorry seriously(probably still spelt wrong). sheapards pie.

[Soddball]

Yes, it is. Shepherd's Pie is what you mean. From the words "Sheep Herd".

[Other Means]

and "Pie".

[Chelco]

The title of the thread is so categorical that it sounds like a phrase from the ex-Iraqi Information Minister.

No intention to offend Dorosh, though. Indeed I'm sorry he had to endure a personal attack of such incredible intensity. Even when I had attacked Dorosh in the past, and badly, I felt utterly disgusted at these new heights of personal offense. The anonimity of the web is the worst enemy of civilized discussion.

The Iraqi Information Minister fun page

IMHO, there was only one blitzkrieg in history: the one Guderian's Corps have done in France 40.

Cheers,

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Chelco:

The title of the thread is so categorical that it sounds like a phrase from the ex-Iraqi Information Minister.

I thought it would stimulate intelligent debate, but when you phrase it like that - well, there really wasn't much debate with Comical Ali, either, was there, so I should not be so surprised the thread shot so far of the mark. I just put it down - as Comical Ali did - to being completely correct yet again. Are they at the airport, yet?

No intention to offend Dorosh, though. Indeed I'm sorry he had to endure a personal attack of such incredible intensity.

You're useless to me as far as Mortal Enemies go. :mad:

Even when I had attacked Dorosh in the past, and badly,

Hmph; I feel like such a cyber-trollop because after what was obviously a meaningful exchange for you, I have no recollection of who you are or what type of intercourse we achieved.

I felt utterly disgusted at these new heights of personal offense. The anonimity of the web is the worst enemy of civilized discussion.

Indeed. So why did your mother name you Chelco?

IMHO, there was only one blitzkrieg in history: the one Guderian's Corps have done in France 40.

Cheers,

Finally! A nugget of conversation. So why do you feel this way?

[Brent Pollock]

...like "blockbuster", yes?

Originally posted by A.E.B:

Michael

You don't reduce the word to meaninglessness. Rather the word now has a broader usage than just some narrow WWII definition.

[snipped by Brent]

[Brent Pollock]

...and, damn you, Dorosh, for adding more books to my already overly long "must read" list.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Brent Pollock:

...and, damn you, Dorosh, for adding more books to my already overly long "must read" list.

I'd be happy to loan you my copy.

[Chelco]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I thought it would stimulate intelligent debate, but when you phrase it like that - well, there really wasn't much debate with Comical Ali, either, was there, so I should not be so surprised the thread shot so far of the mark. I just put it down - as Comical Ali did - to being completely correct yet again. Are they at the airport, yet?

Relax Michael, I was just trying to continue the cool off people initiated a couple of posts ago.

You're useless to me as far as Mortal Enemies go. :mad:

That's totally OK with me. I don't need you love . It just surprised me how well you took somebody grabbing a pic from your website and posted it to make an ad hominem argument.

Hmph; I feel like such a cyber-trollop because after what was obviously a meaningful exchange for you, I have no recollection of who you are or what type of intercourse we achieved.

I never forget the names of who I have offended and the names of who have offended me. I have either a good memory or a profound sense of accountability when I engage in cyber-discussion.

Indeed. So why did your mother name you Chelco?

Touche!

The reason for that nickname is to avoid people posting pictures of me in the internet.

Finally! A nugget of conversation. So why do you feel this way? [/QB]

IMHO, Blitzkrieg is the style of warfare Guderian conceived during the pre-war years. Obviously he didn't name it like this, but his conception of how war should be conducted with the new armored force pretty much reflects what I think of blitzkrieg.

Blitzkrieg is IMHO, a combination of armor concentration supported with specialized infantry, mechanized artillery, close air support, heavy use of radio and a command style based on low-level officers initiative would break the enemy lines and drive through its rear breaking their will to fight.

The German military establishment stubbornly heavily resisted this style of warfare in preparation for the Poland invasion. IMHO, that resistance is reflected in the fact that the 19th Guderian Corps was assigned to the relatively easy sector of the operation under the 4th Army and not to the really hot sectors of the 8th or 10th Armies. During that operation, the Germans showed bad tank-infantry coordination and the air support was also not stellar, many times limited to pre-war planned targets. The materiel was there (tanks, mechanized forces, etc), but the guy was not at the schwerpunkt. Not a real blitzkrieg.

However, Guderian's 14th Corps cross at Sedan in May 1940 is the tipping point of the fall of France. You are familiar on how much Guderian had to fight with von Kleist regarding where and how to use the 14th Corps. They even had issues with the air support!

Ok, gotta work. I'll post later.

[Michael Dorosh]

I'll look forward to you post. Bear in mind that what you think Guderian meant to be Blitzkrieg is exactly what Cooper calls "the Armoured Idea". IIRC. Cooper argues the armoured idea was never practiced in any relevant way that fully realized its potential. Sounds to me like you would like what Cooper has to say.

[Chelco]

That awesome book is on my "to read" list. I browsed Cooper's book in a store a time ago but decided not to buy because I still have so much unread material at home.

You are referring to the lines you put in the first post?

I really think that those lines in Cooper's book are a bit of an overstatement. Being the human will the factor that mostly shapes the battlefield, in war is always difficult to translate theories fully into practice. So, you are left to real life operations that best resembles the theory. IMHO, the drive of PzCorps XIX during the invasion of France very closely resembles Guderian's ideas of armoured warfare.

Another important thing is if we are referring to blitzkrieg at the tactical or operational level. For instance, at the tactical level the Germans applied the blitzkrieg during the first two months of the invasion of Russia. However, their argument that they could encircle and destroy the Russian Army (first at Minsk, then at Smolensk) was a flawed one. The Germans found themselves never reaching the real back of enemy lines.

What is kinda of interesting is that we insist on trying to find a rigorous and procedural definition (me included) for an style of warfare that was based on total flexibility. I think is not a coincidence that the word blitzkrieg comes from the allies (with a command style relying on phase lines and strict time tables) and not the Germans. The very word blitzkrieg would have appeared as an abomination to the German military staff, at least at the beginning of the war. Kein Schema! (not a formula) was the common preaching in German military academies during the interwar period. Heck! That thing comes from times of Frederick the Great.

But anyway, definitions allow a common ground for further discussion. Based on the definition that I posted earlier, my vote goes for PzCorps XIX in France 40 as the only real blitzkrieg both at the tactical and at the operational level.

Cheers,