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ITI

Looking for assistance on D-Day Pack

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I'm sure Kingfish or Michael Dorosh will be along in a minute to give you a compare and contrast between American and British units.

But yes, they're very different. Here's the quick and superficial answer that should tide you over until the specialists give you the real answer.

Besides the tea versus coffee thing (and the disparity in chewing gum and chocolate rations), Late-war American infantry tend to have a lot more apparent intrinsic firepower at the squad level. This has to do with Americans' use of M-1's and BAR's. Commonwealth units tend to make up for it by a generous dose of miniature mortars and dedicated (?) heavier artillery-type assets further up the chain of command. And they're probably better marksmen.

The tea comment is not entirely facetious. The Germans knew that British units liked to stop and brew tea after they took an enemy position, and timed their counter-attacks accordingly.

What all this means in terms of a CM game is that you use British and American units differently.

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Actually, it did not matter who the enemy was, the German doctrine was to always counterattack immediately to restore the position, if at all possible, as long as there was a reserve available. It was the same in Russia, France, or the Med.

BTW - the British did not stop for tea, but to regroup once on the objective. Sort out units, allow stragglers to come up, bring up ammunition, establish comms. Just like everyone else. Having a cuppa while doing that was simply more pleasant. smile.gif

The other thing one needs to know about "stopping for tea" is that this could well mean "stopping for food", which is part of any army's schedule at some point. A lot of English/Irish people I know call their diner "tea".

All the best

Andreas

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As in that famous Edinburgh saying -"You'll have had your tea?" Meaning I'm not giving you anything to eat cos you should have made your tea (tea = evening meal).See the things you learn eh?

Cheers fur noo

George

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Yeap thats what I had on mind

What is the diference beetwen for example american company and british or what is brigade (i mean amount of men etc.)

I need this for reading a landing diagram and for making a british d-day beaches

THANKS for support

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Originally posted by ITI:

Yeap thats what I had on mind

What is the diference beetwen for example american company and british or what is brigade (i mean amount of men etc.)

I need this for reading a landing diagram and for making a british d-day beaches

THANKS for support

ITI --

One of your best sources for telling the difference between a company of British Infantry and American Infantry is the CMAK (or CMBO) editor. Open up the editor, start a new map and select a company of Brits and a company of Americans. CM does an accurate job of showing the squad and platoon sizes and basic equipement and number of men.

You can go the next level up and select a battalion as well which will show the heavy weapons companies, etc.

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Brit battalions are "square" (4 line companies) whereas US are "triangular" (3). In each case, a support company is added ("weapons" in US lingo).

The Brits have very limited company level weapons, just a few 2 inch mortars and piats, frequently parcelled out to the platoons. The US have MMGs and 60mms at company level.

At battalion level, both have medium mortars (6), ATGs (the Brits had all their lights at that level, so 6 57mm, the US only 3, but then the US had 9 more at regimental level for the same number overall, just more centralized). The US had MG platoons at battalion, while the Brits had carriers instead, in 4 sections, enough to assign one per company. Overall the Brits had a lot more light armor in the form of their carriers and relied on those for more of their fire support.

Brit MGs were pooled at divisional level in full MG battalions.

The US issued tons of zooks, more than the CMAK TOEs show. A typical 1944 battalion had 25-30 of the things, with most platoon sized formations having one and many two, even the rear area and support types.

The Brits separated infantry supporting "tank" formations from armor heavy "armour", the latter in divisions (occasionally brigades). The tank formations included heavy Churchills and "funnies" (engineer support, bunker busters and bridgers etc), but others had the typical Shermans. These supported the infantry divisions.

The US used independent tank battalions for the same role, Sherman equipped, separate from their ADs. Also SP TDs - the Brits had those as well but fewer of them. Instead they had one 17 pdr Firefly per platoon in most formation (though some lacked them at the Normandy time-table).

Most of the differences are above CM scale. At the CM scale the biggest difference you would see is fewer foot heavy weapons teams for the Brits, with carriers instead.

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Originally posted by ITI:

Thanks it will help me indeed and one question i heard that british units are diffrent than american so can someone explain me?

Loads and loads of differences.

On a squad, or in British terms, section level, there was a fairly vast difference in the distribution of firepower.

In US squads, most of the troops were armed with Garands, and there were usually a couple of BARs around. Sometimes the squad leader had a sub-machine gun, but this is much rarer than the movies portrayed, and SMGs were only really 'standard issue' to troops such as the Rangers.

A US squad, therefore, has a pretty high level of firepower, pretty evenly distributed.

A British section was made of a Section Leader, armed generally with a Sten sub-machine gun by the times of Normandy, although there were a few Thompsons kicking about here and there. There were also several riflemen (the rifleman/grenadier distinction made early in the war started to really fade out by about late 1942) and a Bren gun.

The riflemen were armed with bolt-action Lee Enfield rifles, and although they were excellently trained, and kept the well-drilled and accurate, as well as fast-firing traditions of earlier British riflement, they couldn't really match a Garand-armed US soldier in terms of sheer fire output.

The Bren gun, on the other hand, was a pretty decent weapon indeed, although it was often said to be a little too accurate (excellent for picking people off with at medium-long range, but the spread didn't really allow for surpressive fire in the same fashion as an MG34 or MG42). It was also pretty manouverable, and all things considered, was probably a bit better than the BAR, if a little more cumbersome.

What you get in a British section is a Bren team with excellent mid-range firepower, but then a weaker team armed with rifles and a Sten gun, which although perfectly adequate for most battlefield roles, was nothing much special.

Oh, plus the British were, arguably, better trained at hand-to-hand fighting, with a fairly decent level of bayonet training, compared to US forces, where hand-to-hand fighting was seen more as a means to take a weapon from an enemy and use it against them.

The larger-scale differences have already been described by everyone else (all of whom know more than me on that kind of level).

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Originally posted by JasonC:

Overall the Brits had a lot more light armor in the form of their carriers and relied on those for more of their fire support.

Err ... no. Not really.

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Yeah because other than 6 pdrs and 3 inch mortars and vickers and brens and 2 inch mortars, all run around by carriers, most infantry fire support consisted of bagpipes, riding crops and umbrellas.

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"Sherwood Rangers (Notts) Yeo"

Can someone explain me what is this unit,it's size everything or

"1 RM Armd Sp Regt"

I guess that this is some regiment. Its hard to belive that on H-Hour on this same sektor land 1 or more regiments

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Originally posted by ITI:

"Sherwood Rangers (Notts) Yeo"

Can someone explain me what is this unit,it's size everything or

This is one of two armored regiments that were attached to the 50th division on D-day. The other being the 4/7 Dragoon Guards. They were battalion-sized formations.

"1 RM Armd Sp Regt"
1st Royal Marines Armored Support Regiment. Basically a tank battalion fielding Centaur tanks armed with 95mm howitzers. Used in close support roles.

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