TrappenJagd (Spoilers!!!)

[John Kettler]

Spoiler alert!!!

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Am fighting this battle as the Russians against NG Cavscout, so shall be circumspect in consequence, but I did want to note for the record that either my experience at the hands of the Luftwaffe is either the 3+ sigma exception to typical CAS performance, or the scenario designer made the crews top notch and maybe even fanatical.

In any event, they are hamstringing my force's left at every turn with one tight bomb pattern after another. CEP looks to be a few tens of meters, which is bad news for my tanki and tankodesantniki. I have never been so heavily and accurately bombed in all my CM experience put together. The Stukas or whatever they are not only deadly, but they bomb the same target from perpendicular axes and in rapid succession. The battle is quite challenging enough without being systematically pulverized from the sky. Having bombed the daylights out of my initial forces, the second echelon is now being pounded by more Luftwaffe assets.

This may've been the actual Russian experience in the battle. If so, I feel for them! OTOH, maybe the random number generator in the game is simply overachieving as part of normal statistical spread.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Shmavis]

Is this from Renaud's 22nd Panzer Div. series? I recall the CAS being very effective. I think the air units were crack quality or better.

[John Kettler]

Shmavis,

I think it is. Renaud seems to have figured out how to get CAS that not only hits hard but hits the right target! SOFAIK, the only bomb which has landed anywhere near one of the Germans was the far end of a pattern dropped on one of my tanks in a close range gun duel. I believe it buttoned the Panzer III. Other than that, it has fallen squarely on my head time and again.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Shmavis]

Doesn't AFV size have a part to play? I seem to recall complaints about Tigers drawing any and all aircraft like moths to a flame. You get quite a few KV-1's as the Soviet player. I think the biggest tanks you get as the German player are some captured T-34's. Maybe that explains it.

[John Kettler]

Shmavis,

The first air attacks came against my T-26Es, and continued without respite after I had T-34s and later KV-1s on the other end of the field. Captured T-34s and standard German issue Panzer IIIs are both certainly bigger than T-26Es. I think that the strike assignment logic may be driven by what threat is closer to a VL, rather than tank size.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Renaud]

John,

thanks for the comments, always glad to hear these scenarios are getting play time.

The entire 8 Air Corp under Baron von Richtofen was committed to supporting Operation TrappenJagd. This amounts to (operational aircraft) 280 medium bombers, 150 Stukas and 180 fighter/bombers committed to a battle area of perhaps 300 square kilometers. These were seasoned pilots, having served continuously since 1940 and specializing in close air support. Richtofen was a strong proponent of air-ground cooperation and had a close working relationship with Manstein. The 8th had just relocated from Greece from which they supported the assault on Crete.

The v1 version (ax-vs-AI) gives the axis about half the air support. I'm sure you are playing the -v2 2-player version.

You should be able to reduce air effect by spreading your tanks out (100m at least), particulary the KV's. Let me know the battle went!

[John Kettler]

Renaud,

Hate to say it, but the Luftwaffe pounding may well then be justified in both quantity and accuracy. Thank heavens the game doesn't include medium bombers! Dispersion is great in theory but hard to come by because of horrendous LOS issues (taking fire over 120 degree arc at various points) on my left, which channels movement dramatically. Guess where most of the bombs fell? The dead ground where I was moving! The KVs were more spread out across the left ridge, but were simply bombed as point targets. One was KOed and is IN the crater. At least I dismounted the tank descents in time. One KV crew managed to kill two III/Js trying to seize my left rear VL, but another KV blew up minutes earlier following a partial frontal penetration! Am intermittently dueling another III/J frontally, and know there's a herd of IIs and 38Ts in hiding behind the woods, after watching a few of their own die under 76.2mm fire.

On my right, the ATG line remains unkillable, and it, together with cross board fires from the hill near the center woods by the left front VL, have severely constrained maneuver, resulting in further lumps as my tanks emerge from behind the woods and try to find a way to not merely survive

but advance. The bombing hit me hard, there, too, and was iced by strafing my infantry which finally closed on the tormentors on the far right hill.

Have managed to suppress the hill defenders finally and turned the ATGs into icons, allowing me, after killing one captured T-34, to advance a tank close enough to threaten the right VL--if I can keep the tank alive. It's not just direct hits that are wreaking havoc, for the forced buttoning, crew casualties, movement disruption, weapon damage, etc., amount to a brutalization all their own. The battlefield's wicked, and NG Cavscout an extremely clever and dangerous foe. Would say his real world combat experience shows! It's turn 20 movie of 22+, and I need to take some VLs or kill a lot of AFVs and men quickly. Will send you the End of game map if you like. I hate the Luftwaffe!

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Managed to hold the loss down to a Minor Allied Defeat, probably because I held the left rear VL, evacuated an F-killed KV-1 and kept my crews out of German clutches, while shooting up several of his. The hill on my right flank was full of barely scuffed Germans, despite a protracted 76.2mm DF blasting and machine gunning. I think one squad in the main group was Shaken, and that was it in terms of morale hits. Depressing! Was so shocked I forgot to check the HQ's stats. I did challenge the right VL with a very ballsy T-34. Another turn, though, and it probably would've been killed by a captured T-34, numerous tankhunter teams, or the surviving Pak.

The Luftwaffe was worth its weight in gold in this fight. The kills, damage and casualties were hard enough to bear, but even worse was the complete unhinging effect all that tacair had on my ability to mass, move or fight.

Known air casualties include : 1 x T-26E mit tank descent, most of a platoon HQ, 1 x KV-1 abandoned, 1 x KV-1 F-Killed (of four in that sector) and 1 x T-34 abandoned, to which may be added a slew of shocked tanks, pinned and blasted infantry, etc. Shocked tanks already behind the eight ball because of smaller turrets and one less man. Had another KV-1 F-Killed on the other side as well. When you're trying to bring forces into action in the face of murderous Pak and tank crossfires, the last thing you need is to be bombed while trying to organize the burst forth maneuver. Promote the local Luftwaffe commander! OTOH, in my sector at least, I think I did better than my historical Russian counterparts.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=49363

See also Wiki, Battle of the Kerch Peninsula. Can't provide URL because of the prohibited parentheses.

This is a marvelous overview of German joint staff planning for this and related operations.

http://www.joelhayward.org/earlyjointwarfare.htm

Regards,

John Kettler

[ June 08, 2007, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Renaud]

John,

Thanks for the AAR...very entertaining. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, was on vacation for 2 weeks in Thailand! You probably checked later, but the Axis aircraft consisted of only 2 vet Me109 and 2 crack Ju87...these 4 aircraft have a field day as there's no russian AA to reduce their effectiveness. fyi, the Joel Hayward article is one of my sources, though I didn't put it in the references for the scenario.

Thought you would be interested in actual tank strength and loss figures for the participating Soviet units on the 9th. Losses are totals for the 9th, but this was almost certainly the major engagement for all these units that day (no other engagements are indicated on the Soviet situation maps for the 9th for these units).

40th Tank Brigade: 11 KV. 6 T34, 25 T60

losses: 5 KV, 2 T34, 4 T60

56th Tank Brigade: 15 T26, 11 T60

losses: 10 T26, 3 T60

229 Seperate Tank Battalion:: 11 KV

losses: 6 KV

By the 11th, these units were almost gone (the 229th reporting only 4 broken down KV's remaining). I imagine the KV's didn't fare too well when forced to move far and fast. And probably under continuous air attack.

The 22nd unit history claims "41 enemy tanks destroyed, 15-20 cannons and numerous weapons" for the period 9 May through the evening of 11 May.

I have no loss figures for the 22nd, but the unit history concludes with "a large success... however unfortunately with many, bloody losses, the PzRgt 204 above all [sustaining] devastating Offz. - and Uffz. Losses...". One can assume that inexperienced tank commanders leading from the front in Pz38(t) suffered high casualties when pitted against russian snipers, guns and tanks.

[John Kettler]

Renaud,

Was replying to Richie when I noticed your post in this thread. Looks like I did better than my historical counterparts did. Woo hoo! Holy shredded real life Russians, Batman!

A very demanding scenario. Thanks!

Regards,

John Kettler