Desert Dave Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Ah, Mr Boggs... you have a certain way, like that amazing Blues Magician, John Lee Hooker, of saying a thing with... charming disarming folk melody. However, were I to post a... poem :eek: (... or what passes) on that there tres outre General Forum, the howls of laughter and, dare I say... DERISION, would drown out the entire... Musik of the Spheres! :eek: Poetry is mostly not machismo. Poetry is not much abided, in among the Ideologically Righteous and, them crowds of Criethers & Shouters. See, me Old Man related me this sort of merry fairy-story countless times, which is why I never tried to write any of that stuff until only recently, familiar coward that I must indeed be! Anyway, quit yer lurking so much and play (post! as ya usta do...) some more of them... smoke-tinted and tilted-horn Turquoise Noise! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Enjoyed all the thought that went into this and especially sympathize with Comrade's discussion of the other night in the three way exchange with CC Baxter. During the past month I've been doing a lot more posting in the General area and a lot less here, the complete opposite of my usual practice. There's a simple reason for that and I'll lay it out as an evolution of my posts, which might also apply to others of us. I'd divide my year into Three Parts: I) Oct thru December Was a period of unreigned enthusiasm during which I took up numerous issues and initiated topics I never bothered to count on things like Weather, The Atlantic, Distortions between the Major Powers, Ideas for Special Rules like Germany's Norway Operation, A more accurate MPP system, More Reliable Treatment of Neutrals ... etc & etc. I was very pleased with myself and the hundreds of postings that were attracted to these things. It wasn't till later, when I started paying attention to JP Wagner and SeaMonkey's occasional comments that the topic had been covered that I began wondering -- and a short while after that I noticed newer guys starting the same Topics on their own, ignorant of my own efforts just as I'd been ignorant of those of Wagner's and SeaMonkey's and others. So I pushed for sticky threads so we wouldn't have to keep inventing the wheel. Wound up pushing too hard I admit and probably caused their adaption here to take longer than they should have. At any rate, even after being adapted they never served the purpose they should have because none of them are labelled PAST SUGGESTION THREAD LINKS, AS I'd suggested, so there's no place where people can go to check to see if their brilliant idea has already been posted. In January Jim Boggs and my self were mistaken as the same member and banned together. Comrade Trapp helped straighten things out from the inside while Boggs and myself proved we were separate entities from the outside. The episode has little significance except Kuniworth, an already flighty character, pretty much established himself as the guardian angel who had warned the forum that I was basic evil and had been proven correct. Returning I took every opportunity to needle him in the succeeding months and it became a vaudville routine which we both enjoyed and a lot of other members also got into to. A lot of people treated him in a very prudish manner and yes, he was silly more often than he was funny, but I always felt he had a lot of good points and also did a lot to keep the place lively. During the Winter thru the Spring a member calling himself Zeres started a semi-humorous AAR that stalled. CvM and myself had the same idea at the same time and began making off the wall posts to it and it eveloved into The Rise and Fall and Decline of the Free French, with a lot of people posting to, evolving into a community AAR. After a while Zeres became busy with real life issues and his real life twin brother came in as General Billote using slightly absurd photos of Charles DeGaule as his logo. Together we had a sub-plot about a sorry looking Alien sent to earth by his hip though abusive superviser to wipe the place clean of the violent human race -- except he can't do it for them, they've got to do it themselves. His big complaint is that humans don't usually eat each other, making his task all the more difficult! And that AAR ran along for a while, along with contributions by Immer in a Raymond Chandler type radio show religiously listened to by Adolf and all the other Allied and Axis Leaders, none of whom had a clue as to what he was talking about, but they enjoyed the way he said whatever he was saying . ... Partly because Zeres never really told us what course his game had taken, and partly because at it's peak his brother, General Billote, became overwhelmed by real life matters, the accidental group project whithered and died in mid-stream. Before doing so, however, it made itself the basis for the great illustrated and entertaining AARs that came later, such as the current battle between Kurt and Blashy. Anyway, getting back to my original trek. I see my SC time divided into three periods: The first group of posts were spent mainly in discussing weaknesses in the game and improvements. There were numerous other members who were constantly discovering flaws which Hubert patched and also added an occasional improvement, such as the Cape of Good Hope Loop, which was added about nine months ago. The game desperately needs similar improvements but, for whatever reason, we're told they will not be added. Okay, fine. So it's back to SC2 which now becomes the last patch of SC original. How inspiring. The second group or so were mainly spent in History Threads which, again, I found and still find extremely enjoyable. The problem there, however, is more and more members seem to find real history a bit droll and only want to see it in terms that relate directly to the game, so that sort of thread has gone into a decline. The third group were general discussion and community. Looking back I miss the Free French AAR period the most and would really like to pick it up again, bouncing ideas around with General Bilotte (a typical inspiring radio address to occupied France and the Underground: "In it's entire history the nation of France has never won, or lost, a war, but instead contues existing!"-- ) But that won't happen and if it did, we'd be padlocked these days in the blink of an eye. So, whether it's because the game or Forum has run it's course or because people are bored or because the administrators are too stifling, whatever the reasons I've pretty much lost interest in initiating further posts. I won't make an announcement and stage a grand exit, nor will I just stop abruptly, unless banned for some crazy violation, it isn't even something I want to do or am planning on. It's just a situation where my former flood of posts will go down to a comparative trickle. Which is good, we'll get to hear that much more from fresher voices, many of them perhaps with better observations and ideas. For whatever reason this no longer seems like the place that became my obsession for so many months. Which is also good on a personal level. There are many things to enjoy in life and they should all be given equal time. [ October 01, 2003, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Immer Overjoyed to see you back and hope it was a great holiday! Jimmy Boggs Jimmy Boggs! Agree with Immer, and it's always a pleasure hearing from you, the only lurker on earth with 2000 Posts! That Thread you're talking about was a riot indeed. My friend Gaylord was teasing me a bit and before I came online to say anything SeaWolf, Panzer and several other buddies had already torn him to shreds. If they knew and understood him they'd all like him as much as I do. But that night he was the stray cat pecked and badgered out of the farmyard! It was one of the best and funniest Threads ever. "JerseyJohn is a Posting Who-ore" . Characteristically he meant it in a positive way and I appreciate it. Yes, the General Forum is a great place once you learn how to deal with it's more extensively established society. And you're right, if Kuniworth had done his schtick over there a lot of guys would have loved it and he'd have never gotten into any trouble at all. Michael Emrys and several others are as knowledgable about WW II as any of us patients in this asylum. -- [ October 01, 2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1 Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 I will risk it then be done with it. I will reiterate, I would loooooove it if Battlefront gave us a General Forum that had all the hostile political rants moved to where hostile political rants belong, somewhere else on site. Battlefront is the only site I can think of that doesn't have a spot reserved for the more over the top political rants from it's membership. I suggested this once. I was told to drop dead in so many words. Battlefront does not wish to give us a General Forum sans political rants. They merely wish to give us one forum, a free for all experience where threads plunge at light speed due to atypical political rants. Can't picture why they can't just give us a Generic Forum where modern politics are considered unwelcome. There are likely lots of Battlefront members that would gladly abandon the political rant crowd in a second for a more laid back wargamer discussion environment where we could ramble on about CM SC and other wargamer passions. I think the political rant crowd might even wish to dump us for that matter. I think that is part of the reason we have some that won't venture out of the SC forum. They don't like the General Forum any more than I do. But I know it isn't going to happen. And I won't be asking for it again any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Les The membership, including yourself, are not one dimensional cut-outs. Why do you insist on pigeon-hole methods? There are people who like the game, like all games and like to have views which are also outside the games themselves. You had an unpleasant experience at the GF, so what? I've had them as well. It isn't a reflection on the GF or one on you either, it just happened. I suspect Battle Front can only set up a limited number of Forums and SC gets two: one for the game and related topics and one for technical problems. But beyond that you're idea wouldn't work because people in general resent as much I do being categorized and told they have to remain on someone else's preconceived track. There is nothing wrong with the present arrangement except the interpretation and enfocement is too rigid. Period. What I don't understand is whether your advancing some sort of self-imposed segretation or total intolerance to things you don't happen to be involved in. We're all pretty tolerant of you and people are pretty tolerant of me, so why encourage a step backwards to limiting the types of thoughts people can express here? If someone does something totally oulandish and negative they're tossed; that's all that is needed, not little slots, because there's always a slot or two that aren't thought of in advance. Just for the record, am I part of the Political Rant Crowd you're talking about? Because if I am I've got a few choice rejoinders. [ October 01, 2003, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Originally posted by Bill Macon: Here's a thought to keep things in perspective: What keeps the chess community from dying? Chess is a very simple game, about as perfectly balanced as possible, no rules errata, no graphics mods, no new patch to look forward to. Yet, people continue to play this game! Perhaps because chess is so simple that a player's expectations remain reasonable. Just play the game. Focus on strategy. Accept the fact that every game will end as a win, loss, or draw. Enjoy the social interaction with your opponents and make new friends. Don't try to make the game something that it is not. An interesting parrellel, true in the local chess club sense but not valid on the highest competition levels of World Championships, Grandmaster Tournaments, etc., which I've had inside knowledge of. Not as a player, unfortunately I never reached those heights, but in an organizational capacity. There is a full spectrum of top chess personalities and a full spectrum of problems. Bobby Fischer went crazy perhaps in part because of these non-game factors. A former World Champion candidate, Viktor Korchnoi, defected from the USSR because he was Jewish and the Soviet Sports Commisars wanted Anatoly Karpov, a pure Russian, to be their candidate against Fischer, who was to be a no-show in any case. Knowing they couldn't get to Korchnoi himself other than assasinating him, they arrested his son in Leningrad while the final match was in progress. Just before the decisive game they showed Viktor photos of the severely beaten young man in a Gulag, telling him it was all his fault and they knew he didn't want to see any further harm come to his family. This wasn't under Stalin, this took place in 1974. Korchnoi himself told me and a few other American Chess players about it at Manhattan's Marshall Chess Club around 1985. So even simple games have their extended, and sometimes deadly problems, always caused by the people involved in them. [ October 01, 2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Im still here, just lurking.... But here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Originally posted by Carl G. E. von Mannerheim: Im still here, just lurking.... But here who are you? Comrade Trapp [ October 01, 2003, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Comrade Trapp ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 That's good, and it's great to see that smiling [virtual] face of yours pop up again! Comrade "who are you?" Can you imagine having to give a comprehensive answer to that one? What a nightmare! [ October 01, 2003, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 To Quote steve McQueen: Look you b@stards, Im still here! Someone tell me, what have i missed? School has taken A LOT of time, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P Wagner Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Didn't CVM once recommend a PENG sticky thread for all non SC related topics for SC forum members to use?...What ever came of that idea?...it most certainly would have helped..by the way, speaking of Missing in Action, where has Aloid gone?....he was one of the biggest supporters of SC...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 "Someone tell me, what have i missed?" Lets see...... 1) The SC Forum has been in civil unrest for the past 48 hours. 2) We are having some major disagreements with the moderators. 3) Kuniworth has been banned, this time it looks like for good. (Something that a lot of people don't agree with). 4) Terif has withdrawn for Z-League and the forum over a dispute with Zapp. 5) Rambo has retired again because of all the crap that has been going on. 6) The moderators are cracking down on the forum. 7) We're having some problems with Z-League. To get the whole story, start at page 4 of the archived threads and work your way up. I bet your glad to be back. Comrade Trapp [ October 01, 2003, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Comrade Trapp ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Great Summation, Comrade. And I bet he's reappearing like a SuperHero and will have all this mess straightened up in no time flat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Originally posted by JerseyJohn: Great Summation, Comrade. And I bet he's reappearing like a SuperHero and will have all this mess straightened up in no time flat! Well, JJ, most of the stuff ive been dealing with as of late have been overbearing administrators (however these are school administrators) I shall not cast judgement on the situation, as i have not been here. Hmmmm, maybe the old remedy will work. JJ, wanna start an AAR up between you and me? CvM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 CvM It would be an honor and one for The Ages! Like yourself I'm also in a bit of a time bottleneck but will hopefully have some free time soon. I'd say in a little more than a week judging by the way business has been moving; is that good with you? My sympathies regarding your school obstacles, fought the same battles back when several extinct animals were still leaving fresh tracks and it's no doubt worse now than it was back then. Regarding the Kuniworth issue, it's very muddled, Kuni didn't help his own cause but the fact is we were hit by a pair of moron spammers and suddenly Kuni ended up on the rug because, before either of them appeared, he started joking around about holding the Locked Thread Record. Unwise, of course, but even in that sense it was a pretty funny Topic the way he handled it. Just joking about the SuperHero solving problems bit, nobody expects you to venture opinions on any of this, especially as you weren't present when any of it was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 o dont worry JJ, im not gonna try to go Messiah on you guys now But yea, a week or so should be good. Btw, i know this is a bit off topic, but, i have been on the AAR ball as of late: Dont Believe me? Play Europa Universalis 2? http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105273 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Kurt and Blashy have one of the best I've ever seen, and using your WW I scenario! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 :eek: :eek: Can i get a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Jersey Check your e-mail when you get a chance. Comrade Trapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 CvM The Guns of August AAR Comrade Will do; running back and forth between my office and the TV room where I'm watching a documentary on Marilyn Monroe's death -- murder/suicide theories. Will hit the e-mail during the next commercial! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Will do; running back and forth between my office and the TV room where I'm watching a documentary on Marilyn Monroe's death -- murder/suicide theories. Will hit the e-mail during the next commercial! lol , take your time. Comrade Trapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Some very insightful comments have been made here. I'd like to add my $.03. I agree with the previous posts that stated that the SC Community isn't dying. Its just going thru various growth phases, even if that "growth" means member reductions. I think its quite evident by the methods of play. The AI is always there for us, its a good teacher and a good opponent to practice against. That next level however, is human opponents. When I first started posting here, I was ready to play against humans and joined the Ladder, simply because if you wanted a TCP game, it was the easiest way to insure you got one. All of us who have been captivated by great games, go down the same path, when we realize that we are spending hours and hours (if not days) playing the game (in the case of SC, as TCP). You get home from work, take care of home business, then settle down for a "few" hours of TCP play. Next thing you know, its time for you to get ready to go to work. You spend your weekends deciding if you can take a shower while your opponent does his turn, having food delivered and eating your meals while you are watching the screen (to make sure your opponent doesn't slip something past you). Give me a nod if you know what I am talking about. You do it because you want to "win" and the competitve juices are flowing. Problem is, that there is no balance with real life and even the youngest of us, will eventually burn ourselves out. And if you're not careful, the desire to "win" becomes all consuming and clouds your judgement about other things. I belive that is where ZappLeague, Terif, Zapp and Rambo are today. PBEM does offer a more balanced approach. Especially if you combine it with some TCP sessions, when both of you can get together. Even so, I find myself rushing thru other things so I can check my e-mail for that next turn, and being let down, if the turn isn't there. Lets not talk about playing more than one person at a time, I believe my personal record was around twelve (12) or so games at once, every day. Not to mention the funny looks I get from my female friends, during intimate moments, where I tell them to give me a moment, then go check my e-mail to see if I have a turn to process. Those are the signs of a great game. As someone said, it appears easy and simple, but is really very complex and deep. I don't think any of use would have it any other way. There has been alot of silliness lately on the Forum. The Moderators warn us when it happens and they are tired of it. I've been know to go off-topic every now and then, not to mention go off the deep end with minute detail. I understand the feelings of a community group, but as we are all guests in the Battlefront house, we have to play by thier rules. I don't think the rules are so harsh, that we should be considering going someplace else. From what I've seen, the Moderators don't mind if we go off-topic every now and then, but entire topics that are totally unrelated don't make sense here. Locking them up or moving them to the General Forum isn't such a bad thing. I do agree as well, that trying to have a "general" discussion in the General Forum doesn't work since that forum is a whole different world than what we are used to here. While I may have gone off-topic here, in the General Forum I've gone off the deep end a couple of times. Its not a place I venture much anymore if I don't have complete control of my senses (ie not intoxicated or irritated about something in real life). That leads me to where I am today with SC. I've posted my share of "how to improve" SC topics, while trying to keep them objective and reasonable. I've just about covered everything I think should be done, based on what SC is now. I've got no problem discussing those subjects and don't find them as "idiotic" or "useless" as others have implied. But other than one or two subjects, which I don't think I will ever find a solution for, there are no new topics. Hence, my "holy grail", is the '39 Historically Responsible Campaign and House Rules. I can't play "vanilla" SC anymore because of the Air and Carrier units. Anyone remember that movie with Harrison Ford and Sean Connery about the search for the holy grail? Remember that old knight who was in the cave? Thats me, waiting for anyone who is willing to search out and play a Historically Responsible game of SC. So if any of you are willing to try it as a TCP or PBEM game, contact me. And for you Newbies who don't know any better, this type of post, which is one of my "shorter" ones, is the kind of thing I used to post every day during a short strecth of time. Just like SC, we all go thru growth phases. Sometimes for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1 Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 JJ there are two types of posters in the field of political rants (as best as I can perceive). There are persons that flock to sites where wargamers frequent, that seem MORE interested in the political rants than wargaming. Or in some cases, they can't seem to give much evidence they are even there for the wargaming. And there are wargamers that value wargaming above their need for political rants. But being human, are understandably going to have political viewpoints as much as anyone else. But don't want to spend every waking moment on the forum tirelessly pursuing them. I have met some persons online, and they seem relatively uninterested in anything other than the political rants. And some of them, well they seem just plain socially maladjusted at times. I want you to understand JJ I don't think of you as being an obnoxious poster, only interested in ranting endlessly about nothing other than the latest political hot topic. I have posted a few political rants in my time. But they become very tedious, very uninteresting and very unsatisfying at light speed with me at least. The parties in question, the ones we are ranting about, they won't hear thing one any of us say about them after all. That is one reason I find that sort of rant kinda a waste of good forum space. They accomplish absolutely nothing for any of us (except to allow us to get into heated debates and say nasty things to each other, like I want to defend that privilege hehe ). The only people I have ever met online, whom I have no desire to ever meet in person either, are basically people who only seem interested in heated debates about political rants. They end up having nothing nice to say to me personally. Their comments usually end up being anti social personal attacks. And really, I don't think anyone really needs anything like that in their day. I don't think that describes you though JJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted October 2, 2003 Author Share Posted October 2, 2003 Brief but true.... After reading all answers and seeing all the dead ones rising from their graves i believe it... The SC community is not dying...only sleeping sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Some_God Once HL2 comes out I'm gone. I wont be playing this crappy ass game anymore. No pun intended but I have reached a burnout too. The beating I have received on Z-league pulled me away from playing SC. This is why you see so few new players or a 'slow down' on this board. As a game to play it looks: simple, you beat the AI: simple, You read the PDF file: simple, you might even read the the Stratigy Guide or some posts: more complex but you've beaten the AI. And then you join the compitison league and find out there are alot of hidding features, unwritten rules, and your cruched again and again and again, by the guys who are always online or you wait and wait for a game. Much of this has been written about but few people run a search (I rarely do), and how do you search for something you don't know about (the sticky solved this problem but few people read it), so here is a quick list that everyone should know (poor place for this but maybe a search will find it). General 1) A short game lasts 2.5-3 hours 2) A long game lasts 12-20 hours 3) Ask how experenced the other guys is, ask questions if your new. 4) Read the Newbie sticky! 5) At time you'll need to wait 2+ hours to find an opponent in the forum. Schuduleing games work but few do it. Allies 1) Egypt is a death trap - you will lose any units you place there, this is not always bad, just plan for it 2) Don't fight for every inch of ground in Russia. Trade space for time until you can start to counter punch the invader. 3) Russia will lose alot of units before you turn the tide, don't get depressed and quit, you can turn the tide. 4) The passive UK will lose - you must do something if Germany is going the Cookie Cutter route. Axis 1) After France falls you should have a plan. You have a limited amout of time before Russia joins. 2) Minor armys do not incress or decrees in power so Egypt or UK should be at the top of your list. 3) Have a pre-set attack plan for Russia. The opening attack on Russia is the last 'set' battle you will normally fight Routes to Victory: Allies 1) Break the axis air arm. With the super importance most players put on air fleets for germany, all you need to do it retake air superiority and the axis player will quit. Alles 2) Staged Delay everywhere. Disrup the axis at every opertunity so that the opening, and subiquent, blow on Russia will be less then overpowering (Spainish gambit works best for this stratigy). Axis 1) Russia. Drive hard and fast and knock Russia out before the western allies can cross the Rhine (they will get into France) Axis 2) Destroy the UK navy. If you can destroy the UK carriers and take all the minors and first 1/3 of Russia, you will win by defalt. Axis MPPs will be close to 900 and Allied will be around 750. Without the Carrier the allies will never have the time to Invade Eroupe, Russia will be too weak to push you off the Dniper River defence. With Leningrad under Axis control you will recive a Tactical Victory in 1947 if you advance no farther (no need to trigger the ST in this stratigy) Tech Lots of posts on this. Just inverst in Jets. LOL [ October 02, 2003, 05:15 AM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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