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Wait, wait, wait!!! Please add the PL dudes to my favorite German list! Plus there was some really cool exchange students in my school. They taught us a few things, plus we drank some brew & played alot of cards.

If you're ever in the States, give me a buzz, we'll play some golf once my shoulder strengthens back up, you can come to my parents farm in Pennsylavia, eat some sweet corn & meet some Omish people. I live in Washington, come out here, I'll treat you at the Skamania Lodge in the beautiful Columbia River Gorge, only 25 minutes from my joint.

Anybody who wants to visit, I'll put them up for 3-days at the resort. If you're not a pyscho, you can stay at my place for some Hotseat SC. I'll ask my new Vietnam Lady if she can get you a date too.

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Dragon --- We have alot of hate groups in the States, I don't think they're "true Nazis", but just true haters. Northen Idaho has lots of "compounds" full of those whackos. Hayden Lake is stuff with those krackers. If you go down South, the majority dislikes the brothers. They say they don't hate to be politically correct, but surely don't talk that way behind closed doors.

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What's neat about the States & all this diversity, is we have a common bond in freedom. You are aloud to believe what you want. You can organize marches, street preach, knock on doors to spread any belief, lobby for government crap, etc. You also get the freedom from being bugged by any group.

We get a little greedy here over cash. Did you know that every generation of American has been richer than their parent's generation, until now. Things are a little bad here in the divorce arena (50% divorce rate, it's a joke). There's lots of fighting about Abortion, drugs, & the usual political soup of the day. Alot of jobs are being sent to India/China by Corporate America. They always try to outsource our jobs to some guy in a hut & pay him a $1/hour while the going rate here would be $30/hour.

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Originally posted by Sombra:

Rambo , America wanted to reduce Germany after the war to an agricultural state though it could never threaten Europe again but after the communist uprising in Greece there came a change of mind.

Even if you don´t believe it the rest of the world doesn´t live in the stone age. Take a drive through Arab countries if you don´t believe me.

Other great achivements of your country besides "Freedom", biggest army etc... :

- First use of atomic bombs

- Great advances in the use of chemical weapons for example agent orange

- USA spends round about the half of the world wide budget in arms

- 4% of the World Poulation uses round about 25% of the world wide energy consumption.

- An average american citizen produce round about 8-12 times the amount of waste than an average European citizen (who produce again 20x the waste of....)

- The USA didn´t sign the ban on land mines

- The USA doesn´t permit international inspections of its nuclear or chemical biological arms arsenal or potential producing plants.

- The USA does not recognise the international tribunal in Den Haag for war crimes.

- The USA did stop an international ban on trade of small arms

´

- The USA didn´t pay up to now its debts to the United Nations.

------------------------------------------------

smile.gif Besides these and some other small flaws I love the USA
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Nahhh, I am just jealous that Rambo can run around naked in the forests of DC with only his guns on.

There they call him a patriot and good citizen here they would call the police. I think it is time to move over to the freeeee country.

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- Yes, the U.S. dropped a couple of fattys on Japan, payback for Pearl Harbor & that ugly war which many don't even discuss. We lost alot of guys in the Pacific (had some stupid leadership in my opinion dying for worthless Islands).

- There's lots of garbage being produced, everything is disposable. We gotta plenty of fat people too.

- Spent money on weapons, well, that's not that bad, just depends what you do with them.

- Signing a bill about land mines? What does signing a piece of paper driven by Princess Di really do? Getting your ass out & picking them up would be the real Good Samaratian activity. I didn't see Princess Di getting them out of the round, just crying about them.

- We don't need to allow inspectators from the U.N. to see our weapons & cool stuff, we aren't gassing Kurds & raping Kuwait.

- Not pay the U.N. bill? Are you kidding me? You know why? Nobody else does! We've been footing that building & organization for 30 years. The Senate came out & said if the everybody else doesn't pay, we aren't either. That was a smart business decision.

- We use alot of energy. No doubt about that. I'm got the computer on, fridge, air conditioner, lights, go thru a tank of gas a week. I love my energy smile.gif Got a nice riding mower too. We're screwed when the oil runs out!!!!!!

- Den Haag crimes? Never heard of the dude. Send him to Numerburg, will hang him there.

- U.S. didn't ban small arms trades. No kidding, you think? We have a 2nd ammendment right to bear arms. We are armed to the hilt. I've got Remington Shotty & 9mm shotty. It's called home defense from some crackhead breaking into your joint.

Summary: We probably could cut back on the Krispy Cream Donuts, ride a bike instead of chewing up a gallon of unleaded, should turn off a couple of lights, & quit buying some much worthless crap at Walmart & throwing into the land fills. On the good side, we've got enought chemicals to make the planet glow. There's so many nukes, we don't need to worry about Iraq or Iran, because if something bad happens, they'll be destroyed before I finish my breakfast eggs.

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By the way, I live in the State of Washington, not D.C. !!! Washington D.C. is 3500 miles away from me. D.C. is a complete dump!

Washington State is absolutley beautiful, I will never move! It's green, rains alot, the rivers, the Pacific Coast, Seattle, Idaho, etc. The Northwest is the best part of the country!

"Freedom!" --- BraveHeart, Passion, & Lethal Weapon U.K. actor guy.

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"Yes, the U.S. dropped a couple of fattys on Japan, payback for Pearl Harbor & that ugly war which many don't even discuss. We lost alot of guys in the Pacific (had some stupid leadership in my opinion dying for worthless Islands)"

Interesting little fact, the U.S. killed more Japanese civilians in their B-29 bombing campaigns between August 1944 and September 1945 than all American dead from every war it has ever fought in (Revolutionary war -> Vietnam +). Now THAT'S payback! ;) Oh, and these numbers don't include Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

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Avatar ;) And what of the Rape of Nanking? 250,000 dead Chinese. I think that the Japenese reap what they sowed. They killed Millions in Asia and were far more brutal than the Americans were in that War. At least we usually just bombed you to death, didn't starve, rape and then practice Samurai swording your body to death tongue.gif

If the Japanese could've, they would've done worse to us. The technology, bases, and bombers didn't exist in Japan to deliver Death from Above to the USA. They were dreaming up dirty weapons, Balloon bombs, excluding the secret Operations into the Aluets-Midway-Hawaii<which if would've taken our soil could've been hundreds of thousands dead and enslaved!> Even after all these losses many in the Japanese Military wanted to still fight? They were fanatical, they wanted to be #1 in Asia and human cost was unimportant. Meanwhile in the USA I human cost was at least debated? NO? smile.gif

P.S. Turn on the History Channel and watch one of those shows on Japanese Slave Labor! Personally my sympathy for the Japanese is Small on the whole. The A-Bombs were ineffective IMO, we could've done more damage with 10,000 B-29s with Firebombs

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Evil begets Evil Liam. I am not contesting equal Japanese atrocities. My point is that we should be better than the simple 'Eye for an Eye' mentality. They (the citizens) weren't evil, they were mislead, at least to a large degree, on their governments' wrong-doings (just like today). Military targets, ok, destruction of civilian populace, not ok.

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I can agree Avatar, bombing civilians was always a stupid idea, back then anyways. Now adays it's the fashion. Whether it be minor terror bombings killing a couple of school kids or a major Nuclear strike eradicating the World. Ultimately the mentality of lets go out on the battlefield and fight it out like men<chivalry> is dead and dying out. It's just not as effective as killing every able bodied civilian in a nation so they cannot produce any more war materials or fight any longer.

Back during WW2, there were few precision weapons, we're talking area bombing. During both the Blitz and the US-UK Raids on Germany in Europe the devastation was on a Major scale. You had to do it though! Why? Had Germany taken Moscow in 1941 then drove through the Heart of Siberia you know it would be all over. Japan and Germany would've met and then decided the future of the Isolated North American continent<the South American one probably would've joined up to help the Axis> The war was different then, the ideology was also. They pulled no punches and we did pull a few. Why do you think Germany wanted to Surrender to us and not USSR? Russians shot and asked questions later. Germans had been truly evil to their people and they were afraid of reprisals but they knew us Americans and Westernerns were more <civilized>

I don't think we saw the Japanese as being truly civilized when they were. I think our thoughts on their ideology didn't help things. Showing off the Nuclear Power of the United States on a sparsly populated Island for the Emperor of Japan would've been kewl! The political Agenda was far more important though! Get through to Japan before the Reds do! And they were comming then... Thing is in the end, the Japanese Civilians like those everywhere claim not to know what happened. We all say, HEY! The Average German didn't know what happened to the Jews! Sure right, where the hell did they go to Adriatic Summer camps? Perhaps the retarded Germans didn't know tongue.gif America has her atrocities in WW2 but Nukes were relatively new and though Powerful, we were the Mini-Killer in that war. Point at Japan, Russia and Germany for Mass Murder. Between China and Russia and Germany you can fill the majority of the Dead. Though the Civilians might not have known it before they felt it in the end, no? smile.gif USA did what they could, not perfect, we needed the Bald Eagle to defeat the Infamous Imperial Navy. Australia were about to be converted to Japanese without us...as well as in New Zealand and India. By then I'll guess Civilian Casualties in the Millions for not just Chinese but the rest of the area as well

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Sombra...

- First use of atomic bombs

- Great advances in the use of chemical weapons for example agent orange

- USA spends round about the half of the world wide budget in arms

- 4% of the World Poulation uses round about 25% of the world wide energy consumption.

- An average american citizen produce round about 8-12 times the amount of waste than an average European citizen (who produce again 20x the waste of....)

- The USA didn´t sign the ban on land mines

- The USA doesn´t permit international inspections of its nuclear or chemical biological arms arsenal or potential producing plants.

- The USA does not recognise the international tribunal in Den Haag for war crimes.

- The USA did stop an international ban on trade of small arms ´

- The USA didn´t pay up to now its debts to the United Nations.

Answer,Last first..

USA is suppose to budget half of the UN budget..the third world countries take our money and use it against us.. why pay for our enemies weapons.

The Hage.. Europe does not have to worry about US war crimes, Europe has many more offences than we will ever commit. Germany, USSR, France, Belgium in Africa, Yugoslavia...etc. etc.

He who has the biggest stick makes the rules... do you wish that any other country had the uncontested might that the US has.. who else (Russia) would not be tempted to abuse that burden.

We use our landfills (trash dumps) to produce methane gas to make electricity.

5% of the earths population, 1/3 of the earths GDP. Only China is close and they have 25% of the earths population. Sure we Americans have wealth, but it isn't because we don't work hard, and are arn't smart, we earn it. We look at the world differently than Europeans, we don't need more land or minerals, we are not gobbling up territory like other Europeans Imperial(Colonial) Nations have done in the past, products are our game. And no one does is better! But We have spent blood to defend our way of life, American graves in England, France, Belgium, Holand, Italy, North Africa, and Gernmany prove that. Did we want any territory, NO.

Why do we stile have troops in Germany? Germany wants them.. we want out!

But when we got in trouble (9/11) where was Europe to help us..only our friend England back us up, Tony Blare is my hero, to stand against his own party to back Englands best friend in the 20th centry, America, took guts.

Sure we spend money on weapons, but if we didn't and became a paper giant, not upgrading military systems, or letting weapons fall into disarray, or military personal become flabbyand and soft, who would come to our aid if say China attacked us, you!!! I don't think so..

Final, Harry Truman said that if he didn't use that horrible weapon the A-Bomb, against Japan, he could never look all the American Mothers that would have lost their son in Nippon. Estimates of 500,000 more killed US causalities. It is also estimated that 2-5 million more Japanese would have died if we would have invaded the Islands. 200,000 died and saved 2.5 million. Also as Jon said, paybacks are a mother...

But Sombra if you have a problem with my defence of Jon, sorry to offend...

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@Seawolf --- Nice take, somebody rack 'em!

@SomeBra --- That's the nuts & bolts about the situation. It's funny to hear Germans tell us how wrong we are for taken out madmen like Saddam. Then you guys act like these nice little passive peacemakers. Your parents & grandparents were goosestepers who sickly tortured, murdered, experimented, gased, raped, looted absolutely innocent men, women, children, old people, babies, etc.

Remember, we bombed the Nazis out of "your system" to get things right. Then we kepted the Russians out of the West. Then when we took down Russia without firing a shot,"Mr. Gorby, tear down this wall.". The US could have nuked you too & let the Russians rape the whole continent, but that's not our style.

My Uncle J. didn't appreciate that stay in the camp along with millions others. My Uncle K. didn't appreciate getting drafted at age 19 & live out in the ocean for 3-years chasing down subs.

Far as the Middle East...it's simple. If you run planes into our buildings & mess with our little Jew Brother Israel, we are going to take you out. The Jews are our friends smile.gif

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Originally posted by Seawolf:

Sombra...

Answer,Last first..

USA is suppose to budget half of the UN budget..the third world countries take our money and use it against us.. why pay for our enemies weapons.

The Hage.. Europe does not have to worry about US war crimes, Europe has many more offences than we will ever commit. Germany, USSR, France, Belgium in Africa, Yugoslavia...etc. etc.

He who has the biggest stick makes the rules... do you wish that any other country had the uncontested might that the US has.. who else (Russia) would not be tempted to abuse that burden.

We use our landfills (trash dumps) to produce methane gas to make electricity.

5% of the earths population, 1/3 of the earths GDP. Only China is close and they have 25% of the earths population. Sure we Americans have wealth, but it isn't because we don't work hard, and are arn't smart, we earn it. We look at the world differently than Europeans, we don't need more land or minerals, we are not gobbling up territory like other Europeans Imperial(Colonial) Nations have done in the past, products are our game. And no one does is better! But We have spent blood to defend our way of life, American graves in England, France, Belgium, Holand, Italy, North Africa, and Gernmany prove that. Did we want any territory, NO.

Why do we stile have troops in Germany? Germany wants them.. we want out!

But when we got in trouble (9/11) where was Europe to help us..only our friend England back us up, Tony Blare is my hero, to stand against his own party to back Englands best friend in the 20th centry, America, took guts.

Sure we spend money on weapons, but if we didn't and became a paper giant, not upgrading military systems, or letting weapons fall into disarray, or military personal become flabbyand and soft, who would come to our aid if say China attacked us, you!!! I don't think so..

Final, Harry Truman said that if he didn't use that horrible weapon the A-Bomb, against Japan, he could never look all the American Mothers that would have lost their son in Nippon. Estimates of 500,000 more killed US causalities. It is also estimated that 2-5 million more Japanese would have died if we would have invaded the Islands. 200,000 died and saved 2.5 million. Also as Jon said, paybacks are a mother...

But Sombra if you have a problem with my defence of Jon, sorry to offend...

- UN buys weapons? :confused: No just kidding I get it. You don´t get always your will though the UN is your enemy. Communsit even

- The kid with the biggest stick makes the rules => Though you have to make sure that you have the biggest stick. Well i really love this adult behaviour. Hope you teach your kids these values. If you are stronger take what you want and make sure you stay the strongest.

- More landfills for the states. Energy problems for the future are solved. I don´t think you graduated in science ?

-9/11 I think you had the support of the whole world even the opportunity to shape a new understanding between the nations. You choose to throw it all away for a ridicilous war which had to do NOTHING with 9/11.

Saddam was a bad guy? Sure he was. You saved many lives? With 10% of the money you could have saved 10x times the people in Africa helped to strenghen struggeling fledling democracies etc. In the end it looked like revenge and a grap for oil resources. Sorry that most of the world was suspicious of you good intentions.

If you wanted to bomb the home country of the terroists you should have wiped out Saudi Arabia.

Ever asked yourself that youre advocating a style of life you can´t permit to other countries? If China ever goes to the level of waste and energy consumption per head as the US then..... :confused: ?

I don´t doubt that the the US is the number one economy in the world and military might number 1.

I disagree that the US has the moral leadership in the world. Most of your "good deeds" and actions in the world are simply selfinterest and securing your powerbase. Sorry that I can´t admire the US for these alturistic motives.

Most times other nations pay your bill. Ever looked a South America where the US has shaped the political landscape for the last century? Any examples there for really succesful democracies ind the backyard of the US?

Seawolf I know that Trumann feared the deatrh of up to 1 million americans if they tried to conquer JApan in a traditional way. The A-bob was the most cost effective weapon ever used to end a war. Unfortunatly the US is still the only nation who ever used an A-Bomb in a war still they a paranoic about the possibility that other nations gain the technology and even advocating preemtive war against such nations.

Since you yourself declared that the US is making the rules because they have the biggest stick and therefore have the right to make the rules and live and take what they want. Can you blame that other people are looking although for bigger and bigger sticks? Since there is no other moral authority the US has respect for then the US themselves .Neither the Un , nor internatinal treaties nor even such simple things and the basic human rights of prisoners (As long of course as these rights are not taken from US citizen) why don´t you think the other nations or the world should respect your moral leadership since you always act in selfinterest first of all?

I don´t doubt that the US is wonderful land to live in for americans .But please stop to pretend you are working to build a better world for all.

If Louis XIX was asked: It is necessary to change the way France is ruled? . What do you think he would have said?

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Strange, I don't use to be anti-american before reading this thread. I even used to support the war in Iraqi. Well, after reading the reaction of American to Sombra's post, I hope the US will be defeated.

Sombra, I back you (ok, that don't help, but..).

And not Paying the UN debt is really unacceptable. Look like Athene at it worst time.

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To Sombra

Nice posting, you are a man of sound principles. We are going to have to agree about disagreeing. I think that we Americans, and I'm assuming that I can talk for all Americans, would rather be like we were before World War 1, isolationist! But two world wars changed all that, both with Deutscheland may I add. After WW2 and the fall of the Colonial Empires, France, England, Holland, Belgium, and Italy (Germany losing all her Empire after WW1)a great void was left to fill. Two World powers raced to fill the void, the USSR and the USA. From 1945 thru 1991 was the Cold War. Thank God we prevailed! Does anyone regret that? Now there is one Super Power. How would Alexander handle that power? Caesar, Napolian, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, the Popes. etc. etc. I think we are very benevolent as a single Super Power. But it will not last, most great countries only last 200 years. Rome 400. So the end will come, and all you who distain American Arrogance will wish that we were still in control, instead of having to learn Chinese!

The land of the free, and the home of the brave.

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Skanky --- Either you're with us, or against us. Obviously, doesn't take much for you to hightail it to the darkside. Now you know why the US doesn't care what France & Germany thinks, because you're sure not going to do anything about it.

SomeBra --- It's rather disgusting you defend the murderous regiemes of the Empire of Japan, Saddam...it's sickening. Looks at the rights, freedoms, & opportunity established here in the United States. We nuked Japan, because it was war. They DOW on us, bombed Pearl Harbor, raped China, & millions in Asia. Saddam trashed Kuwait. The US sends billions of dollars all over the world. We send billions to Africa, "Black Hawk Down" rescue attempts delivering food. We tried to help in Yugoslavia, Gernada, Haitti, etc.

I knew when I first hit these Forums that it's full of anti-American Euros. I could tell by the pro-German world war II attitudes of all the threads,"If Germany just would have...".

Time for me to get my "Vote Bush" sign out.

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@ Seawolf. Even if you believe we disagree I don´t think though. I am still grateful for the deeds of the _US in the past . I am not unhappy that Germany lost the war since the ideologie and the holocaust of the Nazis is not defendable under no circumstances.Neither is the their warmongering for nationalistic gains.

I am simply don´t happy with the actual politic of the US. If you are benevolent as sole superpower you have yet to demonstrate it has been only passed 15 years since the counterpart suddenly imploded.

@ Rambo : Pot calls kettle. Weren´t you against the intervention in Africa, Yugoslavia?

Any part were I defend Saddam or any other dictator? I think your narrowmindness lets you see only the things you want to see and hear what you want to hear.

If Kerry wins will you leave the US since he is an evil communist from point of view....?

Only way for you is war as first principle of solving conflicts? 50.000 dead not enough for your biblical point of view: " And let my enemies drown in blood?" Do you really read the new testament? And if you really do, what happens with the virtues of compassion, sacrifice for others, valor, courage, honesty, modesty?

I don´t know which kind of friends you have but who is the better friend somebody who tells you his opinion if he believes you make a mistake or siomebody who always tells you how great, big, beautiful you are? Oh I forgot you already gave the answer somebody is either with you or against you.

Do yourself a favor check a history book / check your principles against the principles of the NAZI movement in Germany. Ask yourself honestly which kind of world you would like to live in.

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Somebra --- You talk "politically pretty" for somebody who probably has their parents Nazi stuff in the closet. Your relatives threw my relatives into camps (Uncle J. to be specific) & now you preach we're the bad guys.

That's why we don't care what Europe thinks.

Yeah, I do read the NT, read the last chapter about the 7 nations standing up for Israel.

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