ronald reagan celebration

[boninza]

i, as a german say thank you

[jon_j_rambo]

"Mr. Gorby, tear down this wall!"

[Kuniworth]

This conservative right wing mr Ronald "lets starve the poor" Reagan can rest in pece.

Now locking this. Not sc related.

[jon_j_rambo]

Unlocking this thread after the attack on an American Icon & Legend.

Out of all our politicians, we lost a great one this week. Ronald Reagan was truly a great person. Actor, Humorist, Cowboy, & Leader. He stood up to the Commies, Libya, & took care of business. I grew in the 1980's in the Midwestern USA, one of the greatest decades in the history of the United States in my opinion. No major wars, economy upturn, & the end of the Cold War. The 60's saw revolt of the hippies, 70's taken over by drugs & fear.......but the 80's brought back ideals of the family (although falling in the 90's). Reagan was a good spirited man, spoke well about life, joked with his adversaries in politics, & I just liked him. Many Americans loved him, he still holds the record for most votes received by any President of the United States. I remember President Reagan even announcing a couple of innings in the Major League Baseball All-Star game. Reagan was actually a radio annoucer & movie star in his early years.

The reason I post this message, is I love the way President Reagan stood up to the Russians & their Iron Curtain on Russia. Granted, one man doesn't stop an Empire, but a one man can be a leader. I believe the people (most people) will rise no higher than the example they see by their leader, which is done on a day by day basis. Reagan fired all the Union Air Traffic Controllers, broke up the monopoly of ATT, fought drugs (would have done more except for congress), got hostages out of Iran, helped fight Commies in Central America, stimulated job growth, protected the auto industry by allowing wise deals with the Japs & Germans, etc.

Mr. Reagan, thanks, rest in peace. May your family be comforted in this time. There is Hope in the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"Mr. Gorby, Tear Down This Wall."

[Kuniworth]

"Mr Gorby, lets go for an expensive arms race"

"Mr Gorby let's cut the social welfare expenditure to ensure that not all citizens will get the same chance to a decent life"

"Mr Gorby lets destroy the trade unions"

I was eight years old and running with a dime in my hand

Into the bus stop to pick up a paper for my old man

I'd sit on his lap in that big old Buick and steer as we drove through town

He'd tousle my hair and say son take a good look around this is your hometown

This is your hometown

This is your hometown

This is your hometown

In `65 tension was running high at my high school

There was a lot of fights between the black and white

There was nothing you could do

Two cars at a light on a Saturday night in the back seat there was a gun

Words were passed in a shotgun blast

Troubled times had come to my hometown

My hometown

My hometown

My hometown

Now Main Street's whitewashed windows and vacant stores

Seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more

They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks

Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to your hometown

Your hometown

Your hometown

Your hometown

Last night me and Kate we laid in bed

talking about getting out

Packing up our bags maybe heading south

I'm thirty-five we got a boy of our own now

Last night I sat him up behind the wheel and said son take a good look around

This is your hometown

Bruce Springsteen "My Hometown"(about reagenomics)

[SeaMonkey]

Kuni, I'm a little disappointed in you. Is this the kind of political rhetoric you were greeted with when you posted of the unfortunate demise of one of your beloved political dignitaries? I remember feeling remorse when you posted of her tragic death at that shopping mall. I'm sure I wouldn't have agreed with her political position, but never the less a tragic loss to us all, especially if it meant something to you.

[BochiW]

Great public speaker, charming man. But spoke in favor of "States Rights" in Philidelphia Miss. site where 3 black Civil Rights workers were murdered. Approved of segragation at Bob Jones Univ. Iran Contra, Beirut even conservative columnists were shocked how he could twist the history of the Mid-East into something unrecognizable. His economic policies were good in someways but hurt the poor too much.

He led the Republican party to the Right & that is the reason for the huge split in American politics today.

Oh Carter got the iran Hostages released, they just didn't get home until after Reagan had taken office.

Very Optimistic man & that was great for america at that time.

PS

Sorry just sick of hearing praise of this controversial figure everytime i turn around.

[ June 11, 2004, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: BochiW ]

[SeaMonkey]

Well let's see BochiW, where I live, 70% of our poor are obese. Most have at least 2 television sets and a stereo, not to mention the VCR or DVD players. All(90%) possess at least one vehicle and 47% own their own home. Now tell me how that stacks up to the poor in the rest of the world. Now down here in S. Texas we've got a mass of foreigners doing everything up to and including illegal activities just to get in this country. Does that sound like we've got it wrong?

[Blashy]

Reagan is like any other rich man, GREED! (oh yes, he was rich AFTER he became Governor and MORE AFTER he was President... )

Bottom line for them is money for the rich, screw the poor, lets invade or distabilize (i.e; medical embargoes) any country that they want to do things their way (Grenada, Nicaragua)and not our way that will be better for us but not them, EVEN if that governmant was democratically elected by the people under GOOD democratic and voting conditions (a lot better than the "Hey Bro (Jeb) let me steal the elections for you). Don't argue, even the voting watchdogs that go all over the world have said those elections were not legit, USA's response f**k you...

Better yet, read this.

KILLER, COWARD, CON-MAN

GOOD RIDDANCE, GIPPER!

Baltimore Chronicle

Sunday, June 6, 2004

by Greg Palast

You're not going to like this. You shouldn't speak ill of the dead. But in this case, someone's got to.

Ronald Reagan was a conman. Reagan was a coward. Reagan was a killer.

In 1987, I found myself stuck in a crappy little town in Nicaragua named Chaguitillo. The people were kind enough, though hungry, except for one surly young man. His wife had just died of tuberculosis.

People don't die of TB if they get some antibiotics. But Ronald Reagan, big hearted guy that he was, had put a lock-down embargo on medicine to Nicaragua because he didn't like the government that the people there had elected.

Ronnie grinned and cracked jokes while the young woman's lungs filled up and she stopped breathing. Reagan flashed that B-movie grin while they buried the mother of three.

And when Hezbollah terrorists struck and murdered hundreds of American marines in their sleep in Lebanon, the TV warrior ran away like a whipped dog … then turned around and invaded Grenada. That little Club Med war was a murderous PR stunt so Ronnie could hold parades for gunning down Cubans building an airport.

I remember Nancy, a skull and crossbones prancing around in designer dresses, some of the "gifts" that flowed to the Reagans -- from hats to million-dollar homes -- from cronies well compensated with government loot. It used to be called bribery.

And all the while, Grandpa grinned, the grandfather who bleated on about "family values" but didn't bother to see his own grandchildren.

The New York Times today, in its canned obit, wrote that Reagan projected, "faith in small town America" and "old-time values." "Values" my ass. It was union busting and a declaration of war on the poor and anyone who couldn't buy designer dresses. It was the New Meanness, bringing starvation back to America so that every millionaire could get another million.

"Small town" values? From the movie star of the Pacific Palisades, the Malibu mogul? I want to throw up.

And all the while, in the White House basement, as his brain boiled away, his last conscious act was to condone a coup d'etat against our elected Congress. Reagan's Defense Secretary Casper the Ghost Weinberger with the crazed Colonel, Ollie North, plotted to give guns to the Monster of the Mideast, Ayatolla Khomeini.

Reagan's boys called Jimmy Carter a weanie and a wuss although Carter wouldn't give an inch to the Ayatolla. Reagan, with that film-fantasy tough-guy con in front of cameras, went begging like a coward cockroach to Khomeini pleading on bended knee for the release of our hostages.

Ollie North flew into Iran with a birthday cake for the maniac mullah -- no kidding --in the shape of a key. The key to Ronnie's heart.

Then the Reagan roaches mixed their cowardice with crime: taking cash from the hostage-takers to buy guns for the "contras" - the drug-runners of Nicaragua posing as freedom fighters.

I remember as a student in Berkeley the words screeching out of the bullhorn, "The Governor of the State of California, Ronald Reagan, hereby orders this demonstration to disperse" … and then came the teargas and the truncheons. And all the while, that fang-hiding grin from the Gipper.

In Chaguitillo, all night long, the farmers stayed awake to guard their kids from attack from Reagan's Contra terrorists. The farmers weren't even Sandinistas, those 'Commies' that our cracked-brained President told us were 'only a 48-hour drive from Texas.' What the hell would they want with Texas, anyway?

Nevertheless, the farmers, and their families, were Ronnie's targets.

In the deserted darkness of Chaguitillo, a TV blared. Weirdly, it was that third-rate gangster movie, "Brother Rat." Starring Ronald Reagan.

Well, my friends, you can rest easier tonight: the Rat is dead.

Killer, coward, conman. Ronald Reagan, good-bye and good riddance.

[Blashy]

BTW, as for him boosting the economy... sure he just kept spenging money he did not have and left Americans with a debt that increased something like tenfold...

[JerseyJohn]

As a kid I very much liked Ronald Reagan, the host of one of my favorite TV shows, Death Valley Days.

I always liked him as an actor but felt he got a lot of lousy roles, found out later this was due largely to politcal disagreements.

Later heard from friends in California that as governor he'd sold the working man down the drain and gave the state to the rich and powerful.

Voted for him to be president, like everyone else other than hardcore Democrats because Carter and company were utterly inept.

As president, I feel he did to the entire country what he had earlier done to California. Reaganomics only meant the working man and the middleclass were screwed.

He didn't destroy them, but he started the ball rolling in that direction.

Those that came after him, both Democrat and Republican, finished the job.

At this point I think all U. S. politicians should be taken aside and investigated and the entire system turned upside down, cleansed, and fixed.

Reagan, at least, I liked as an actor. Which is much more than I can say for those who succeeded him.

[Comrade Trapp]

Kuniworth and Blashy, I'm more than a little disappointed in you. I would have expected a little more respect out of you guys, but I guess I was wrong in thinking that.

As for BochiW, your entire post was full of ****.

But spoke in favor of "States Rights" in Philidelphia Miss. site where 3 black Civil Rights workers were murdered.

I know nothing of this case, just going by your quote here. But isn't the murder of 3 black civil rights workers in the end, a state issue?

He led the Republican party to the Right & that is the reason for the huge split in American politics today.

How exactly is Ronald Reagan to blame for the split on issues we face today?

Oh Carter got the iran Hostages released, they just didn't get home until after Reagan had taken office.

Yeah, after 444 days and a failed rescue attempt that cost the lives of 8 US servicemen.

[JerseyJohn]

Comrade

So you won't think I'm a commie -- Yes, Ronald Reagan got the American military back where it should have been.

So nobody will think I'm overly down on the man, he was a much better president than his predecessor.

-- My gripe against him is he began the momentum in destroying the American worker and American middleclass. None of that was necessary. We had a great country; I don't know where it went but it began leaving with Reagan's presidency.

[kurt88]

Ahh, some mud slinging over stuborn politic beliefs, let's break out the popcorn !!

[Comrade Trapp]

Kurt, get on ICQ, been looking for you all day.

[SeaMonkey]

Look I dont give a rat's a** about political affiliations, I'm with you JJ, it needs an overhaul. But one thing I charge everyone on this forum with, is take responsiblity for yourself, don't blame someone or something for your situations. You, well most of you, are free to choose. Make your choices and live with them, good or bad, you are responsible, take your medicine like a man and don't go snivelling away that someone else is at fault for your life's inadequacies. If we weren't given a brain and the ability to reason ourselves out of extenuating circumstances, we'd all still be living in caves, running after rabbits to feed ourselves with. Nuff said!!!

[ June 11, 2004, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

[JerseyJohn]

SeaMonkey

I don't see it as something we're snivelling about, I see it as commenting upon a reality.

The United States Government no longer represents the interests of it's citizens and hasn't for quite some time.

When Lincoln was president anyone could simply walk into the Whitehouse and if the president was home he had a chance of speaking with him. If not a note left was almost certainly read. The individual citizen still mattered.

Nobody expects that today, things have changed too much in a century and a half. But what nobody deserves is to have a government that is either indifferent or downright hostile to it's own citizens. What's that about? The Government is removed from protecting it's workers, it's consumers, it's citizens, no interest in pension plans, no interest in health benefits, no interest in the future of education -- what's going on?

It's become a thieve's paradise and no, I don't take any personal responsibility for any of it; if someone had ever presented a chance for anyone to have an effect on things, other than lobbyists representing big business then sure I'd say okay, we got what we asked for, but that isn't the case.

What we have are politicians who are bought and paid for before they're ever elected and they come in two packages, both owned by the same power brokers. The absolute last thing these lobbyists give a damn about is the American people and these are the guys calling all the shots.

We don't deserve that, not you or me or anyone else; the country was stolen from the people. I'm not responsible and neither are you; none of us had any hand in it and none of us had any way of preventing it so I'm not about feel any sense of responibility for Ali Babba and his forty lobbyists eating caviar bought with tax money that's supposed to be used to benefit the citizenry.

It's a travesty. Nobody is crying. It's past that.

[ June 11, 2004, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[SeaMonkey]

JJ, that's the problem, the people look to the government to do everything. What did people use to do when there wasn't any government. They banded together and protected and gave and took care of their own in a local format. We are responsible for letting the government become a centralized beauracracy by wanting them to protect us from everything. IMO, the government is to protect us from other foreign organizations which wish to subject us or to tenure our demise. That's it, nothing more. You see when you give the kind of power to a few individuals like we have, it usually promotes corruption, look around the world, look at these governments, its everywhere. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. When you look another man in the eye and charge him with doing right or wrong you can usually get a response, one way or the other, it will be settled here and now. With that kind of responsibility in the local environment don't you think people are more apt to conduct themselves in a responsible manner, responsible to each other. We have become too removed from each other, putting the burden of our responsibilities on someone else, the government, it is not the answer. We are.

[JerseyJohn]

SeaMonkey

The people should be the government.

I've never relied on the government for anything.

But it's come to the point now that the people practically need protection from their own government.

Nobody can fend for themselves any longer. The government has to be tied into everything. It can't spend twenty-five years opening the floodgates to cheap labor while simultaneously making it easy for U. S. manufacturers to send all their jobs overseas. It can't empower employers at the expense of employees, which it has done repeatedly. It's a bit difficult to fend for yourself when you're living in New Jersey and your job is in Guatamala!

The situation is far too complex for the rugged individuals fending for themselves. I've seen whole industries vanish from this country. Huge segments of the populations disenfranchises and hung out to dry and the it was always big government in partnership with big business.

Sorry, I don't see any the arguments. I don't want the government running my life but I sure as hell don't want it ruining it either.

Every other decent country on earth has a government that, one way or another, looks out for it's own people. Over here we put a blanket over all of that and call it socialism.

This is going off into a rant so I'll desist at this point except to say, getting back to Ronald Reagan, he was the first president I saw who seemed to enter office with a group of powerbrokers around him who seemed to be making all the decisions.

I liked him as a person, liked Nancy Reagan as a person, but can't stand what's happened to this country. The problem with not having a government in there that's watching out for the rank and file is there's nothing at all to keep the rich from getting richer at the expense of the poor, who can only become poorer. And that is what's been happening. I know not everyone sees it, but more and more people, professional people, are talking this way so if I'm nuts at least it means I'm not nuts alone.

[Arngrim]

Shouldn't this entire thread be moved OT :confused: ?

[boninza]

da hab ich ja ein fass angestochen

[Curry]

1. This entire thread belongs on the General forum and I hope this gets locked.

2. However, I agree with seamonkey. When the Sweedish politician was killed we all felt remose even though many of us were so far away from her politics. A little of the same respect and kindness I think would go a long way for all of us to get along. Some of that anti-Reagen, Anti-American bull **** really goes a long way to ruin good relationships. I wonder how the Sweeds on this board would have felt when after the Sweedish politician was killed we all told and said what we really felt about her politics and about Sweden in general. Not the best way to make friends and influence people for sure.

3. I hate the general forum. Its just a place of attacking each other for what each other beleives and respects. No one ever changes any ones view, all people do there is get polarized and show continual disdain for each other. Here, for the most part at least, we have shown respect to each other even though we realize some of us have major differences on politics, religion, military, and most importantly sports teams, (we all know the Tamba Bay Lightning are the best hockey team in the world! ). Come on and lets leave this sort of thing for the general forum.

ps - we all know that out the 50 states to live in New Jersey is the worst, but none of us have picked on JJ for living there. Up to now anyway.

[ June 11, 2004, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Curry ]

[JerseyJohn]

Curry

I'm about to tuck in the only reason I'm living in this hellhole!

Nobody, absolutely nobody hates New Jersey more than I do!

It's turned me into a babbling Bolshievik!

The Garden State my -- #%$&^!!

[SeaMonkey]

JJ, there is always room for you in my local. In fact the Lone Star State would be honored to offer her hospitality. But I must chastise you, NJ may not be our most sparkling state, but she is ours none the less and deserves more respect than an idle reference of "hate". And I've spent much time in Roselle and Linden.

[ June 11, 2004, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

[JerseyJohn]

SeaMonkey

Many thanks my friend, if I can cyphon a few gas tanks I may be leaving tonight!

Yes, I know you've also suffered here and have a high tolerance for pain -- but I've served my time and each morning I open my eyes and it's still -- New Jersey :eek:

True, this place is part of our own, like Three Mile Island and Death Valley, and it ought to be cherished.

I'd like to do my part by changing places with someone more up to the task!

[ June 11, 2004, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]