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dudpar

I think I KO'ed my own Wespe with cannon back blast

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Hey Folks,

Is this possible. In my last turn I had a Wespe near the corner of a heavy building. I had some enemy inf targeted about 300 meters away.

When the Wepse took a shot looks like the shell hit the corner of the building, then my Wepse blew up. I was not in LOS from any enemy unit, i believe I killed my self!!!

Will the game AI allow you to fire and ko yourself

in this manner?

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Yep, that's possible.

Be careful placing heavy guns or the lightly armoured AFVs with big guns (Hummel, Wespe, Priest...) not too close behind buildings.

The crew sometimes doesn't understand that it's not too smart to fire a 150mm HE grenade at a building from a distance of less than 5m...

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ParaBellum:

Yep, that's possible.

Be careful placing heavy guns or the lightly armoured AFVs with big guns (Hummel, Wespe, Priest...) not too close behind buildings.

The crew sometimes doesn't understand that it's not too smart to fire a 150mm HE grenade at a building from a distance of less than 5m...<hr></blockquote>

And, out of a matter of interest, whats the minimum arming range for a German WWII HE round of that calibre?

(hint, I think you'll find its a bit further than 5 metres...)

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Brian:

And, out of a matter of interest, whats the minimum arming range for a German WWII HE round of that calibre?

(hint, I think you'll find its a bit further than 5 metres...)<hr></blockquote>

But are you sure? When did minimum arming distances become standard for HE shells? I've heard stuff - (anecdotal yes) - about outward bound mortar bombs being detonated by overhead branches. Make your own tree burst sort of thing. Obviously there is a world of difference between some twigs detonating your bomb and firing your shell into a building 5 metres away <Duh> but the phenomena may be related...

Someone out there will know. But what I really want to know is: when did the USSR start firing green tracer - or is that just a Chinese thing?

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There are some 'sweet spot' lines of sight that pass through parts of buildings (near the corners for example) which vehicles sometimes try to shoot through blowing themselves up. It's just a weird bug.

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"Hey Fritz, you see that 2X2 meter window in the building, lets try to shoot our 150mm gun trough it. Try to hit the speadin M-8 700m away thats moving at 26mph. I am sure yo can make that shot count, huh?"

Yea thats what the AI is thinking!

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I recently had a White Scout Car kill itself in a similar manner. There were 2 large buildings with an open tile in between. The car was beside one of these buildings, at the corner closest to the other building, at which the vehicle was doing area fire. The LOS was clear of the building closest to the car. The range was about 32m.

The vehicle died at the instant its 1st burst of the turn left the muzzle. Only 1 single tracer traveled to the target area. This was the 1st time this vehicle had fired in the game. The vehicle was shown as "abandoned" and 1 of the crew was dead.

When I examined the dead vehicle's kills, it showed "1 unidentified vehicle". I saved the game and surrendered to see what the enemy had in the area and found nothing. Furthermore, none of the enemy units had any kills of vehicles at all. Thus, the "unidentified vehicle" must have been itself smile.gif .

I found this rather strange. This vehicle doesn't seem to have a .50cal, so somehow some .30cal bullets must have come into the open top.

As far as I know, MG bullets in CM don't ricochet. If that's true, then the only thing I can think of is somehow the crew got caught its own "grazing fire" area. Perhaps it moved forward a bit as it fired? I don't think so--it had been sitting still for some time before I ordered it to fire.

In any case, I've been unable to replicate this "own goal". I've set up little scenarios with the same terrain arrangement and ordered a scout car to area fire from the same spot, but it's always come to no harm. Strange.

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In all these statements of vehicles blowing themselves up, what experience level were they, I can understand conscripts or ven regulars doing a stupid thing like this but veterans and elites, nah.

tongue.gif

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>The vehicle died at the instant its 1st burst of the turn left the muzzle. Only 1 single tracer traveled to the target area. This was the 1st time this vehicle had fired in the game. The vehicle was shown as "abandoned" and 1 of the crew was dead.<hr></blockquote>If the TC was up (unbuttoned), the burst may have killed one of the crew and that may have "encouraged" the rest to bail out. Just a guess.

Joe

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In a zero viz night battle my friend drove a jeep right up next to my wesp. The ensuing shot from the wesp killed both. However, I confess targeting the jeep myself. I am not sure the crew would have been so stupid.

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Determinant:

But are you sure? When did minimum arming distances become standard for HE shells? I've heard stuff - (anecdotal yes) - about outward bound mortar bombs being detonated by overhead branches. Make your own tree burst sort of thing. Obviously there is a world of difference between some twigs detonating your bomb and firing your shell into a building 5 metres away <Duh> but the phenomena may be related...

Someone out there will know. But what I really want to know is: when did the USSR start firing green tracer - or is that just a Chinese thing?<hr></blockquote>

As far as I've been able to determine, minimum arming ranges for artillery rounds have been the norm since WWI or even before. Its purely a function of muzzle-velocity versus time (for the "set back" to function, to arm the fuse). The higher the muzzle-velocity, the greater the mininum distance travelled before the round is armed.

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"But what I really want to know is: when did the USSR start firing green tracer"

at least since the start of wwii. but i'm only part time grog, so if one of das ubergrogs knows better please dont hurt me smile.gif

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Warning, slight spoiler ahead...

.

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. I've " killed myself " in a game too. Sort of. In " Far From Over " a King Tiger's close defense weapon ( nbhztr ) popped a grenade on some nearby US infantry just as an Ostwind trundled by, aiming for the same infantry - BOOM - and scratch one Ostwind. The King was a regular and the Ostwind was a regular or green, can't quite recall now.

At the time my greatest thought was, " Damn, now that's realism! " ...

Cheers,

Eric Tuggle

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Joe Shaw:

If the TC was up (unbuttoned), the burst may have killed one of the crew and that may have "encouraged" the rest to bail out. Just a guess.

<hr></blockquote>

I know why you said that. heh.

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Brian:

And, out of a matter of interest, whats the minimum arming range for a German WWII HE round of that calibre?

(hint, I think you'll find its a bit further than 5 metres...)<hr></blockquote>

Well possible. But since it is not modelled in CM...

Just area targeted a house 5m away from a 150mm inf gun. They didn't hesitate for a second to blow themself up...

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Brian:

As far as I've been able to determine, minimum arming ranges for artillery rounds have been the norm since WWI or even before. It’s purely a function of muzzle-velocity versus time (for the "set back" to function, to arm the fuse). The higher the muzzle-velocity, the greater the minium distance travelled before the round is armed.<hr></blockquote>

Though "bore-safe", a fuse has been known to malfunction (a chance in any man-made device). Notable example - 7.2in How crew wiped out in Rommel ? Gunner Who ? (The second volume of Spike Milligan's books on his war years).

In as far as overhead cover being a disaster for mortars, two points:

1. many mortar fuses were NOT bore safe (being too expensive a commodity for a cheap round). Once the pin was pulled and/or the fuse cap removed they were live.

2. Australians used this feature on several occasions in the jungles of the SWP to literally blow holes in the canopy - they did not have the luxury of being able to site their weapons with "correct fire lanes". Required a well dug in mortar, good (experienced and one could say silly enough) crews, sufficient safety distances to troops. It involved the "walking" up of the hole from comparatively low on the horizon until the desired position was reached (used the "bedding-in" rounds - the first two or three rounds fired which, because the baseplate has not compacted the ground, tend to go in other than the strictly desired direction. Is this aspect of the use of mortars modelled accurately in CM ?)

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: edward_n_kelly ]

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: edward_n_kelly ]</p>

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I have seen this happen more than I care to remember, you would think I would lean. Iguess I always assume the crew isn't that stupid, but they are. My last self-KO? Veteran Puma. Looking at his kills, it says he killed a Puma.

When will I learn?

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