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Is anyone using another computer game to generate tactical battle situations for CM?


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Has anyone made an operational representation of Close Combat II/A Bridge Too Far/Operation Market Garden?

I think it would be a blast to play out this fine campaign as represented in CC II, but at the more realistic scale of CMBO.

The reinforcement algorhythm is a bit tricky, but if you've played it enough, you know how to get it pretty close to how it could have been historically.

There are a number of Market-Garden battles floating around. Has anyone created some sort of grand campaign linking up a bunch of them. Are there any smaller operational campaigns linking up a few of them?

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Heck, you mean to tell me there's other computer games? WHY? :D

Actually, COmputer Gaming World has been sending me a free subscription for well over a year now trying to convert me. Games like earthQuake, half-dead, never never land, ... ;)

It ain't working; since taking a leap of faith and buying CM I haven't bought another game. smile.gif

So the answer to question is no.

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Why not use a board game to set the "big picture" and resolve battles with CM?

Take a game, say "The Bitter Woods" or "D-Day", use the map to track overall positions and give the players points to spend on CM forces by multiplication of the counter strength, and restricting units purchased by counter type. COCAT does much the same thing, but the boardgame would be fun.

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Louie the Toad:

Originally posted by harpooner:

[QB]Has anyone made an operational representation of Close Combat II/A Bridge Too Far/Operation Market Garden?

Have you tried "The Red Devils at Arnhem"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Operation Market-Garden came out in the V for Victory series a few years back.

Presented the campaign in battalion or regiment level, IIRC.

MrSpkr

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"the V for Victory series"

The decent thing for this idea, methinks. It is battalion level, with step breakdowns of companies, and company-sized units for some unit types. Incidentally, they are quite good operational games, the Russian one in particular. They have only two weaknesses to beware of.

One, they have a "unit fatigue" system which is on the whole quite good, but has one loophole. Low level "harassment" artillery attacks cause fatigue when they shouldn't. The reason this is a problem is it is too easy for a player to "tag team" his supporting artillery onto some subset of the enemy maneuver force, and fatigue them every turn. In a day, two at most, the units so treated crumble.

This is not realistic because the effect doesn't depend on the strength of the arty shooting. To "plug" this whole, just do not allow harassment artillery fire. Pure artillery attacks ("drumfire") are allowed, but only with 1:1 or greater odds.

The second weakness has to do with the otherwise excellent supply system. Too much of the supply cost is for the artillery units of a command, while increased "attack" supply for non-arty units is very cheap. This opens a loophole, because you can cross-attach all the artillery to one HQ, and give that HQ lousy supply, then just don't fire the guns. You free up so much supply all the maneuver units can stay at peak supply rates, which gives them huge combat strength bonuses.

To avoid this problem, do not allow shifts of artillery units (cross attachments) from one HQ to another, unless the HQ the unit is transfered *to*, has a *higher* supply setting for that day, than the one it transfers from. Don't game the system, in other words, and basically leave the artillery were it is and pay for its supply if you want to increase the supply to some formation.

Other than those two loopholes, they are fine games still. Interface and such nothing to write home about; they play like board wargames (though with some fog-of-war).

As an operational context for CM scenarios, though, they'd be pretty good. You'd probably want to resolve almost all fights in the V4V game, not in CM, though. They are pretty big battles, meaning lots of battalions in them.

Even a single multi-hex V4V battle would be several fights in CM, probably. You'd want to break up the fight into the attacking hexes, or half of them, unless you want pretty big fights. Because even though V4V fights are battalion units, they often involve 4-6 units going after a stack of 2-3, say.

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There is only one game like CM and that is steelbeast for the moment.

This game is about modern war. You can play it on tactical level from 1 tank/ Bradley up to a brigade (if your processor can handle it).

At WestPoint they have bought 1400 copy's have the game to train their students.

I'm not sure but I think we have to keep an eye on operation flashpoint and of cause

CM 2.

Good Hunting

Jaws

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It would be interesting to follow someone using this approach. How would the logistics play into a CM-scale battle? How would availabiltiy of unit types be handled? I believe this is where the true superiority of the allies show up. While at an individual battle level, the best of the Germans is better than the best of allies, translating down from the operational-level would probably show how rare large-scale panther/tiger on Sherman encounters were. And before someone blows a gasket, I mean rare in the scheme of the number of small unit actions that took place.

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BloodyBucket:

Why not use a board game to set the "big picture" and resolve battles with CM?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah ha! I knew there was a good reason for keeping my old copy of Atlantic Wall around! ;)

Now if I can only get my three year old to understand defense in depth... and my wife to be reasonable about me being in bed by 2 AM... and my 5 month old to sleep through the night so I don't have to tend to him ... and my boss ... etc.

If only CM had come along when I was single!

:rolleyes:

Aloid

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Posted by The Wood:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It would be interesting to follow someone using this approach. How would the logistics play into a CM-scale battle? How would availabiltiy of unit types be handled? I believe this is where the true superiority of the allies show up. While at an individual battle level, the best of the Germans is better than the best of allies, translating down from the operational-level would probably show how rare large-scale panther/tiger on Sherman encounters were. And before someone blows a gasket, I mean rare in the scheme of the number of small unit actions that took place. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good points. Perhaps the best approach would be to have an umpire make the call as to supply level. Most games represent units on a level that is much too large for CM, regiment or division level. A representative company size battle in CM could be used to give the result for combat between these large units.

In a bulge game like "The Bitter Woods" you might give the allies points to spend on air support on clear days, and prohibit the Germans from purchasing ubertanks after a set number had been destroyed.

The simpler the boardgame in this case, the better I would think. You would really have to make up a lot of rules on the fly, but the reward in terms of seeing how your side was doing in the overall scheme of a larger battle might be worth it.

You might even take the leap to another era. Use a game like "Diplomacy" that uses area movement, fight battles in CM and apply the results to the positions on the board. It would be a huge abstraction, and completely ahistorical ("500 point Canadian vs. Heer Quick Battle to see who gets Ukraine") but it would give your CM battles a larger context to exist in.

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This kind of gaming leads to very interesting

matchups: Infantry w/o armor support attacked by armor w/o infantry support; supply columns attacked by probing or scouting forces just to name two. It also gives a reason to fight for or withdraw from an objective town or bridge. Just imagine: A fighting withdrawal in order to fall back to a stronger position,

then launch a counter attack. :cool:

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