Hans Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 From the italianisti@yahoogroups.com ....Italian Renaults They were part of the same December 1940 agreement with the Germans (December 1940), and the quantities involved were 76 tanks immediately and 25 monthly from February, fully overhauled by the Germans, and with German radio sets. On January 15th 1941 the extimates were revised, again rather optimisticaly, to 140 tanks immediately plus another 360 in batches of 50 tanks monthly, but it was noow unclear if they would have been provided with radio sets (by mid-february they were all still radio-less). The italian crews started to arrive to the Wunsdorff Panzerschule during March 1941, to train on the R35 and bring hem back to Italy, where the first 20 ones were delivered on April 24th 1941 (April 3rd 1941, according to other sources). The Germans later informed that they were not to delivered all the 500 promised R35, but the quantity was at first reduced to 350 and later to 124 tanks. Originaly it had been planned to form six R35 battalions (1st to 6th Bns/4th Tank Rgt), as follows : 1st to 4th Bns, formed from the 4 coys of the 1st Recruit Training Bn/4th Tank Rgt The 2nd Recruit Training Bn formed the 5th and 6th coys of the 6th Bn, and the 7th and 8th coys of the 5th bn, with the other companies newly formed. The sharp reduction in the quantity of the delivered R35 forced to revise the whole program, and only the 1st and 2nd bn remained (later renamed 101st and 102nd Bns/131st Tank Rgt om August 15th 1941). The former 3rd Bn was transformed in a recruit traing bn, the personel of the 4th and 5th bns was used to fill up the 200th Tank Bn and the 6th bn was transformed in the 8th Light Tanks Bn. Each R35 bn was organized on an HQ coy (2 x M13 tanks plus 2 x M13 Centro Radio tanks) plus three tank companies (16 tanks each). As I've told for the S35, also the R35 were tentatively to be send one platoon in North Africa for tests in mid-1941, but it was decided to cancel this decision, as it was perfectly clear that the R35 were fully obsolete by them. All of the available R35 were sent to Friuli for manouvers instead, then on Sept.14th 1941 the 101st and 102nd Bns were sent to Sicily (January 2nd 1942), as part of the 6th Army. It was again decided to send them to North Africa (July 28th 1942) but again the decision was cancelled (September 14th 1942). Operationaly, the R35 in Sicily were divided among the Mobile Groups, as follows : Mobile Group A (Paceco) : (4th coy/102nd Bn). Mobile Group B (Santa Ninfa) : (6th coy/102nd Bn). Mobile Group C (Paceco) : (5th coy/102nd Bn). Mobile Group D (Misterbianco) : 2 x HQ tanks (from 101st Bn HQ) plus 13 x tanks (3rd coy/101st Bn). It lost 5 tanks fighting in the Palazzolo Acreide area. Mobile Group E (Niscemi) : 15 x tanks (1st coy/101st Bn). It lost all tanks but 5 under naval gunfire barrages, and another 2 were destroyed by the US Rangers, all during the fight in the Gela area. Mobile Group F (Rosolini) : 10 x tanks (2nd coy/101st Bn). Four tanks were lost fighting against the British. Mobile Group A (Paceco) : (4th coy/102nd Bn). Both 101st and 102nd bns were destroyed during the defence of Sicily. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooz Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Hans good thread! What about FT 17s? The Italians also had some, plus their own version of similar design(I only have some of my sources with me, the rest of my books are in boxes, in storage, any website that you can suggest will be appreciate). I can't remember the appellation. From "Captured Tanks in the German Army" they also mention that the S-35s were deployed in Sardinia, although under which control--German or Italian is unclear. Victor Madej's "Handbook on the Italian Army" and "Italian Order of Battle" (reprints of US Army manuscripts) also have some info on these units and those R-35s mentioned above. Good stuff. I'm in the preparation stages now for a Gela campaign. At present there are more questions than answers. Chris "Jr Evil" Orosz'es "Panic At Gela" is a fun battle, but I'm trying to design a large op that has the US defending, then counterattacking, similar to the great campaign game in Talonsoft's "West Front". Also, I want to get the Rangers into the fight. Your thread has helped--thanks! :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/france/ft_17.html If you have a specific question on the Ft-17s pass it on and I'll throw it to the Italian wolves at the Italianisti list. Glad to be of help, I put that out as I'm researching for a campaign on Sardinia and came across that little piece of info. May I suggest you plug into the italianisti@yahoogroups.com Lots of info there and experts who enjoy having their brain picked 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooz Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 From "Bitter Victory, pp 284-285: "This is supported by the postwar report prepared by the Historical Office of the Italian Army which states that the commander of Mobile Group E split his force of light tanks (an estimated thirty-two ten-ton Renaults, sixteen three ton tanks and several even smaller World War I tanks) in half." If memory serves these FT-17s referred (inferred?) to above were labeled R-3000(?). I know that these little buggers are in the Italian countermix in the ASL Module "Hollow Legions". Thanks for the tip about the Italian site--good stuff. I am still scratching my head and trying to figure out how to make a decent--and fun op on these Italian/German attacks. It won't be a project that's rushed. Thanks again for the help--I'll appreciate everything you guys can help me with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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