Doctor Sinister Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Is there any demand out there for scenarios that are totally *TOTALLY* fictional - right down to completely changing the history of the war itself? I've just knocked up a new multi-Battalion sized scenario in CMAK called the "Battle of Basingstoke". I was just wondering if it was worth uploading it anywhere or if anyone wanted to test it for me - because I've no idea if it's any good or not!? I got the inspiration from an alternative history book I was reading about the German invasion of England. The scenario deals with a fictional battle between German and British troops in southern England on the GHQ line at the town of Basingstoke (where I happen to live these days) in an effort to break through and capture London. In order to achieve what I thought would be the the "right" mix of forces (i.e. as historically accurate as I could get them), I've had to steal ("time-warp") British troops from North Africa in 1940, and German troops from North Africa in 1941 (they were the earliest I could find). Although the scenario details state that the battle is taking place in Italy, September 1944, the battle is in fact taking place in England, September 1940, which would have been the optimal time for Hitler to launch Operation Sea Lion following the defeat of the British Expeditionary Force and the Dunkirk evacuations. Anyway, just thought I'd post here and ramble on a bit to see if anyone was interested. Like I say, I make no guarantees re' the quality of the scenario, but it should be quite exciting. I mainly just knock up scenarios for my friend and he seems to enjoy them. If this battle in England is any good, I had visions of doing an entire “campaign” starting with the invasion itself. Probably been done already though… I'll shut up now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Wargamers and armchair generals are always interested in "what-ifs" and trying to change history. I think you will find an audience if the scenarios you have in mind will stand on their own feet as interesting games. Multi-battalion sounds awfully large, but I know some players go for that sort of thing. For my part, I find the premises of most of the "what-ifs" faulty and unconvincing. They lack credibility and I lose interest in them. It's very difficult to conceive and design a "what-if" that is truly convincing unless you really know your history inside and out. Still, it's a subject worth thinking about. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Hey Doc I too did a little looking at that. I looked at three possible areas for alternative history German attack (with Spanish help) on Gibraltar. The problem there is working in the Brit naval guns. Looked a series of battles based on Spain coming into WWII on the German side, Vichy France going against Britain - but not allied with Germany and Germany attacking Russian in 1942 with Japanese help. Having set that I had a British and Portugese invasion of Spain in 1943 that parallels the Peninsula war. As Michael said above, unless its air tight it comes in a bit strange however. The last idea was a Allied invasion of Sardinia in 1943 - that one is moving forward at a snails pace 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by Hans: The last idea was a Allied invasion of Sardinia in 1943...That kind of interests me. One of my own favorite what-ifs is that the Allies, instead of invading the Italian mainland at Salerno right after Sicily, had gone after Sardinia and Corsica. Then, with air bases on both those islands, they could have landed anywhere along the Italian coast right round to the French Riviera. A landing around Rome or north of there would have spelled a much shorter Italian campaign. Even the serious threat of doing so might have compelled the Germans to pull out of southern Italy, which would have made 8th. Army's advance up the peninsula easier. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Hans, for offshore arty, look at my idea in my Utah beach mod. or download it. I made the gridded pavement tile water, made steel plate walls for the church, pinked out the roof, tower, and bell. place spotters on top floor, boom! just place them far enough out to sea so that they dont take return fire from short range weapons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Very nice! I was thinking more from the point of view of the fire power - had considered using aircraft for that but..... Hard to model a 9.2 inch gun in the CM system! Hopefully in Cm2 we'll be able to do seige/fortress assaults better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I've been thinking of something like "Un-Finnished Business", a series for CMBB in which Soviets go back to deal with Finns for one last time in 1945. Would finally be a good use for the Finnish Pz-IVJ's which arrived too late, and also an excuse to try the IS-III. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 i playtested the destroyer with 2 8" howitzer spotters on 2 ships=4guns, set at about 1/3 and 2/3 point of map. wide target, 600 meters. to mimic d-day bombardment. works good to me. you can also place guns etc on the water because its really pavement tile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Sergei What about a one on Hango? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Uh, what about it? There was some fighting around the Soviet naval base in 1941, but I suppose you're after something hypothetical? As for Soviet Marine operations, there were plenty of those in the Bay of Viipuri (unsuccessful attempt by 59th Army) and Lake Ladoga (a successful landing by two Marine Brigades) during the summer of 1944. Germans tried taking some outer islands in the Gulf of Finland, but those attempts failed. [ February 13, 2004, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: Sergei ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I was thinking a 1945ish invasion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 In 1945 Russians had a new base in Porkkala (given back in '56), from which it is just 30 km out of Helsinki, as opposed to 100 km from Hanko. The UFB45 setting would allow for all sorts of situations, including guerilla warfare, as after the war thousands of weapons were (without government's authorization) hidden just in the case that would happen (was a big scandal at the time and got Russians irate). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Cornelius Patton Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Alternate universe scenarios, you say? Hmmm... Patton vs. Rommel at Zama- The Germans don't yank Rommel out of North Africa. Instead, the "Desert Fox" sticks it out to the end, making a last stand against General George S. Patton on "the barren plain of Zama," where Scipio Africanus and Hannibal Barcid clashed so many ages ago. British Defense of the Holy Land- The British are unable to keep the Germans from overtaking Egypt. Now, the Africa Korps has set its sight on Palestine, perhaps even Jerusalem. Can the British prevent the fascist onslaught? Or shall the anti-Semitic Nazis gain control of Judaism and Christianity's holiest city? Cannae- Allied and Axis forces clash at Cannae, the site of Hannibal's greatest victory. Venice: Nazis' last stand- Venice, when it was founded, was a place for refugees fleeing from the barbarians during the fall of the Roman Empire. Now, in May of 1945, it is (involuntarily, however) a refuge for the Nazis fleeing from Allied forces during the fall of the Third Reich. Unlike the barbarians, however, the Allies follow their prey. The "drawing room of Europe" is about to be painted with blood. Americans/Brits/etc. in Berlin- the classic WWII "what if?," if the Western Allies and not Stalin had been given eastern Germany and had to fight for Berlin in the last battle of the war. There's an endless possibility of "what-ifs," these are just a few. God bless, Publius Cornelius Patton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 i made an alternate universe one where germany invaded new england. the germans got the us advantages while the us got german advantages: gave the germans more medium stuff (nashorn, panzer ivg, stugs) and airpower, but the us got jumbo shermans backed up by chaffees and 57mm recoiless rifles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42317 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 a refuge for the Nazis fleeing from Allied forces Oh please, stop using "Nazis" and "Wehrmacht troops" synonymously. The German Landsers were no innocent lambs either (to put it mildly), but I refrain from equalizing them with the SS Death Commandos and the GeStaPo scum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Doctor Sinister, Given your scenario, have you read OPERATION SEA LION, by Richard Cox? It details, in richly detailed novel format, the unfolding of a major SEA LION wargame held at Sandhurst involving many senior commanders from both sides. Forces involved were what was historically available, but of course the invasion never happened. To my real question! What are you using for Blacker Bombards, Northover Projectors, and the Bates Eight-Barrel Bottle Thrower for the Home Guard? Too bad you can't port the Ampulomet from CMBB. It would make a great stand-in for some of the improvised weaponry the British were forced to depend upon. Molotovs would also be good substitutes for the hand thrown version of the SIPP (self-igniting phosphorous projectile). Here's another thought. Why not game an assault to liberate Jersey or one of the other occupied Channel Islands? The British could have battleships and fighter bombers, while the Germans would be dug in, heavily fortified, armed to the teeth, and supported by heavy guns of their own. Amphib assault w/ Funnies while under prezeroed Nebelwerfer, mortar, 88 and heavy artillery fire. Whee! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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