George-III Posted December 25, 2001 Share Posted December 25, 2001 I was looking around on this website about Kursk and found some very interesting pages that show a detailed comparison between German and Soviet Divisions: armored units motorised units infantry units Looking thru these pages I could see it wouldn't take much work to reduce the numbers to more or less company levels and you would have a pretty good CM battle I like the matchup between the motorised divisions so thats the one I used: motorised units I am not a grog or military history expert so I just took a best-guess on how to reduce these numbers to a CM style battle. If you look at the chart you will notice that the German PanzerGrenadier Divsion has 241 infantry squads. Since 9 squads (3 platoons) make up a company I decided to devide 241 by 9, which equals 26.8. If we divide every number on the chart by 26.8 the smallest unit we end up with is a company of infantry so I used that as the divisor. For a battle between a German PanzerGrenadier Divsion and a Soviet Mechanised Corps - 1942 here is what you get: German PanzerGrenadier Division AFVs StuG III x 2 PanzerJager (TD) x 1 AT Guns 7.5cm (some 5cm) AT x 1 Support 10.5cm Guns x 1 12cm Mortar x 1 81mm Mortar x 2 AA Guns 20mm AA x 3 Vehicles Armoured Cars x 2 Half-tracks x 4 Motor vehicles x 56 Combat Troops Infantry Squads x 9 Engineer Squads x 2 MGs x 17 Additional Signals Gear Radios x 4 Phone Sections x 1 Soviet Mechanised Corps - 1942 AFVs T-34 x 5 Light Tanks x 2 SU-76(64%) or SU-122(30%) x 1 AT Guns ATR x 11 45mm AT x 1 57mm AT x 1 Support 76mm Artillery x 1 BM-13 Katyusha tubes x 2 120mm Mortars x 2 82mm Mortar x 4 AA Guns 12.7mm AAMG x 2 37mm AA x 1 Vehicles Armoured Cars x 1 Combat Troops Inf/Sapper Squads x 19 MGs x 5 Additional Signals Gear none For a battle between the "GroßDeutschland" PanzerGrenadier Division and a Soviet Mechanised Corps - 1943 here is what I get: The "GroßDeutschland" PanzerGrenadier Division AFVs Tiger x 2 Panzer III x 3 Panzer IV x 3 (Im assuming an equal # of III's and IV's) BefehlsPanzer x 1 Panzer II x 1 StuG III x 2 PanzerJager(TD) x 1 AT Guns 7.5cm (some 5cm) AT x 2 Support 7.5cm Guns x 1 10.5cm Guns x 2 15cm Guns x 1 12cm Mortar x 1 81mm Mortar x 2 AA Guns 20mm AA x 4 Vehicles Armoured Cars x 2 Half-tracks x 15 Motor vehicles x 57 Combat Troops Infantry Squads x 10 Engineer Squads x 3 MGs x 21 Additional Signals Gear Radios x 7 Phone Sections x 2 Soviet Mechanised Corps - 1943 AFVs T-34 x 6 Light Tanks x 1 SU-76(64%) or SU-122(30%) x 1 AT Guns ATR x 12 45mm AT x 1 57mm AT x 1 Support 76mm Artillery x 1 BM-13 Katyusha tubes x 2 120mm Mortars x 2 82mm Mortar x 4 AA Guns 12.7mm AAMG x 2 37mm AA x 1 Vehicles Armoured Cars x 1 Combat Troops Inf/Sapper Squads x 20 MGs x 5 Additional Signals Gear none Ok. What do you think? did I do these numbers correctly? and who do you think would win? I think I would take the Soviets in the first battle and the Germans in the second. Each side seems to have very interesting advantages and disavantages. For the Soviets you can see that they have the edge in tanks and infantry squads, but I also see a couple of problems for the Soviet player - number one - no transport for the infantry and towed guns, number two - no radios for command and control, and number three - very few machine guns. On the German side it says they have between 17 and 21 machine guns per company. I think this number includes the machine guns that CM already places inside the squads so if you were setting up a game you would probably only add a couple of HMG's to the squads, not 20. The only other number that doesnt make sense to me is the number of vehicles on the german side (50 plus) other than that most of the numbers seem to make sense. BTW on the website it says that panthers are not included in these totals because they havent arrived from Germany yet, in case you were wondering. From the website: <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>The key points from this comparison: 1. "GD" was a very special case - the Wehrmacht's premier division 2. The Mech Corps heavily outgunned the PzGrd Division in AFV's 3. The Mech Corps has far more artillery tubes than the PzGrd Division 4. The PzGrd Division does at least have the heavy guns to out-range the Soviets 5. The Germans have far more organic transport - the Soviets frequently relied on the tanks to carry the troops 6. The Soviets had a large edge in infantry <hr></blockquote> ok, thats it..hope this was interesting. [ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: George-III ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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