HeinzBaby Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Question on how is the Front line determined after each battle.. I'm playing Russian v AI German in 'Gamblers Fallacy'. Spoiler... I declined early contact and decided to make a stand with everything I had at the small 'hamlet', occuping all buildings, the stone walls and treelines up the road, all hidden. At dusk, the last battle before nightfall Gerry showed up with Infanry in mass moving down the rigde/ woods in front, only to to be swept away by withering fire from my ambush... Cool, dead Hun everywhere, I'm still in full posessioin of the Hamlet, original positions, no where out flanked, Huns to front of me quaking. All Hvy weapons, ATG OK, thou the BT's are finished... Next battle, Nighttime, NEW Front line has me setup out of town!! yep!! I was spewing *&^%%$#* Had a mad rush to get back to re-occupy my previous positions. Gerry came back for more murdering, down the slopes, with reduced night visability it was a slaughter... Next battle had me set up way back at the Town on the river, with more reinforcements , I haven't finished this gem of an Operation [cheers xerxes], but I'll be using the same tactics, stay low, don't shoot till you see the whites of their eyes, and open up with everything you have. Soo... back to my original Question, how is the Front line determined after each battle moving back by the 'hand of God' really ticked me off, I've got an aweful feeling this will happen again at the town after the first clash, but with a river to the back of me, will I get lucky and survive a mad stampede over the bridge and back up the Church and town... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooz Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I have the same beef. I mostly play ops and have noticed that NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, you will NOT get a continuous front and ALWAYS have some units cut off--even if they were adjacent to units who in the next scenario who are in the new set up zone. :confused: :mad: I have screenshots to offer upon request. Then, I notice the AI gets to place his units in these vacated zones, sometimes on top of my men. :eek: This has occurred in the last three battles of the op I am playtessting (it's an airfield defense, very good, and unique). So, like yourself, I have to start every new battle trying to link up with these stranded-for no-reason platoons. Yep, I have read the manual, and keep my forces connected and make certain my front is continuous. It doesn't matter. :mad: A lot of the Forum hounds tell me that the AI DOES NOT give itself some advantages. Yeah, right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polish Bruce Lee Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 if you put the "no mans land" mark at its lowest, i think its either 0m or 80m, it will fix it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzBaby Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 Soo..it appears that the new 'front line' set up has no bearing on wether you manage to hold your ground or run to mum?..mmm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooz Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I just finished my op playtest. Yep, the ENTIRE MAP was in my control. I had all the corners, and even the middle of the map edge controlled by platoons. Yet, the AI still gave itself room to have a set up. So, regardless if how much map you take, the AI must have room to place its units, hence the ubiquitous isolated friendly units. This is just in the situation where the entire map is yours upon scenario end. Why this also occurs even when the AI has plenty of room to place its units is another question. I can understand the AI giving itself room to set up, but why does it do this when it DOES have room? A bug? Or is it just inherent in the game engine? What do we do? Take important ground and PRAY that the AI allows us to keep it? Beats me. :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 First, the ai doesn't have an advantage, the same thing will happen in a head to head. From my view, this is really a problem with how the operations draw the start lines. It's much better than in CMBO, but I still don't like it. To be evicted from a key position by the front line being "Redrawn" is ridiculous. Some players on the offensive will use the "Redraw" to take a difficult position by just bypassing the position and letting the new battle setup lines evict the defender. p.s. glad you're enjoying gamblers, sounds like one heck of a tough fight going on there! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Originally posted by tooz: A lot of the Forum hounds tell me that the AI DOES NOT give itself some advantages. Yeah, right. The same advantage is given to human attackers. From my experience, I'd guess that a line is drawn between the forces, and the neutral zone is put on both sides of it - with the occasional room for fixed units and small deviations from a straight front line. To me it seems that the line between the players is based on the numbers or values of troops they have close to it, maybe even some kind of least squares approach. As an attacker in a huge CMBB op, I reached the map edges with some recon elements while the mass of my units were finishing off one of the remaining AI pockets. My new setup line was only a few metres behind my forward ACs (their position remained fixed). I got the whole map - and except for some 40m kept it for the next battle - despite lost of SO inf in those pockets. In the first battle of that op, I achieved only a small breakthru with a few recce forces to exploit it - and most of those units foundthemselves fixed in place way outside my new deployment zone - but nevertheless the AI enemy was moved back. The 4th battle had me advancing towards a river. I ignored taking the city, only a foothold to protect my advance from flanking fire. Of course I got the city after the battle. Not to mention I was rewarded with both sides of the river, while I had merely reached my side - far from the bridges. In short: BFC, fix the new front lines in the defenders favor, allow for more flexibility (ie a small breakthru does not shift the whole front), and make them terrain sensitive (esp for rivers!). If this calls for a bigger battle window - this is the designers problem, along with his playtesters. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAUS_TD Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I agree with Joachim, sometimes when i attack i use this bug in my advantage by leaving the hard spots nearing them and try to pass by them then the next battle i get it anyway, without losing many soldiers. I know this is a gamey way to win but what the hell. This also happens when iam defending a point with most of my forces kicking the ia back and the next battle i have leave this area because the frontline is put back a mile and you cannot change there position in that area so the most your forces are standing in the middle of knowhere get shelled by the ai the first turn so you have to retreat. so my question is: if there is an area where many troops are and frontline is pushed back still give that area under your controll so you still can change your positions in that area. (maybe it's not true but i usely see those area's for the ai but when you put there forces there is always nobody to be found, does the ai always retreat behind the frontline??? or can you let them stay in that area especially when it's good to defend.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Originally posted by MAUS_TD: I agree with Joachim, sometimes when i attack i use this bug in my advantage by leaving the hard spots nearing them and try to pass by them then the next battle i get it anyway, without losing many soldiers. I know this is a gamey way to win but what the hell. This also happens when iam defending a point with most of my forces kicking the ia back and the next battle i have leave this area because the frontline is put back a mile and you cannot change there position in that area so the most your forces are standing in the middle of knowhere get shelled by the ai the first turn so you have to retreat. so my question is: if there is an area where many troops are and frontline is pushed back still give that area under your controll so you still can change your positions in that area. (maybe it's not true but i usely see those area's for the ai but when you put there forces there is always nobody to be found, does the ai always retreat behind the frontline??? or can you let them stay in that area especially when it's good to defend.) It seems the AI pulls back his forces. After all, they probably get surrounded and cut off in the next battle. And They do not get resupplied (checked the last and first files fro each battle after an operation), so they are not the best front line troops. If I have troops out of my area, I check their ammo (they don't get supplies!) and use them so they get supplies next time. That usually means taking them back - apart from the occasional team left behind for scouting purposes. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAUS_TD Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 danke Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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