Is it possible to win Our backs to the Volga as the germans ?

[Thin Red Line]

In human vs human of course.

I wonder what tactic may work...

Did anybody try it and won ?

[Capitalistdoginchina]

Hi TRL,

Thanks for your review at the Scenario Depot. I have been offline for about 4 months and this is my first post at the CM forum for a long time.

To answer your question - yes it is possible, and in playtesting it was found to be easier to win as Germans than as Russians although it does of course depend on the tactics used by both sides.

Due to my intimate knowledge of the scenario it would not be fair for me to detail exactly what tactics to use however on a general scale i can say that a more agressive german player will reap rewards if he can make decisive inroads in the early stages of battle (Before the bulk of russian reserves arrive). The axis have a stronger initial force and if you can take advantage of this the Russians will always be fighting a tough uphill battle to keep you at bay. Usually, this battle comes down to the wire and it was a deliberate ploy to limit the number of turns (Refering to your comments at the depot) thus encouraging the German player to get moving right from the word go as well as to keep the action rolling right until the end. Advancing quickly, in bounds, whilst providing covering fire and suppression will be costly, but ultimately rewarding if the pressure can be maintained with the arrival of your reinforcements.

I hope that helps. However, we must always remember that a smart, experienced and skillful defender can ruin anyones well laid out plans

After being away for these past months i was delighted to see that both my scenarios (This one, and "RD - Into Russia We Go") are now listed as the top 2 PBEM scenarios at the CMBB section of the Scenario Depot. This can only be acheived with the help of the wonderful guys at Boots & Tracks and of course to players like you who take the time and trouble to post reviews at the depot.

My thanks to you.

Kind regards

CDIC

[Thin Red Line]

Hello CDIC,

First of all, thank you for this great scenario, as i said on the Depot it is the most enjoyable i've played, (i play exclusively scenarios in PBEM.)

There is another thread on the CMBB forum about lenght of this scenario but as this is the scenario forum and as i like things in good order i'll answer here.

NEST OF SPOILERS BELOW

A few remarks from a german player point of view. :

I wish the briefing could provide some information about the fact that the russian start with limited forces and get reinforcement later, because if the geman player doesn't know it so normally he will be prudent.

Of course a good tactic is to concentrate troops, but as many of them come as reinforcements it may be difficult because they appear on different places. Why not get them all at start ?

If not, I would like to see more information about reinforcement composition , i was really suprised by the quantity i get. I couldn't plan appropriately. If only i had known

The german have a fair quantity of tanks , but few of them are actually able to fight the T-34s/KVs (i.e with a 75/L43 gun). Given that the T-34 can take them all at any distance on this map it is hard to match them.

The T-34s have terrifying anti-infantry capabilities with the cannister shot ! (it's an engine limitation).

More generally i think they may be too many tanks, both sides in the scenario (though i don't know from an historical point of view )

The sewer movement is very slow : 15-20 turn for a decent distance ! Not really usable in a 30 turns scenario.

Anyway, enough complaining, and again, despite those critics i think it's an excellent scenario i learnt much from it and i had a great time playing it.

After all, the germans at Stalingrad were never able to control the city

[ June 28, 2003, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ]

[Runyan99]

[ June 27, 2003, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Runyan99 ]

[Capitalistdoginchina]

Originally posted by Thin Red Line:

Hello CDIC,

First of all, thank you for this great scenario, as i said on the Depot it is the most enjoyable i've played, (i play exclusively scenarios in PBEM.)

Thank you, i enjoyed designing and playtesting this one more than any other.

A few remarks from a german player point of view. :

I wish the briefing could provide some information about the fact that the russian start with limited forces and get reinforcement later, because if the geman player doesn't know it so normally he will be prudent.

I am one of those designers that prefer to give the players a surprise with reinforcements. I never put the details of reinforcements in the briefing, but that is just the way i like to do it. It is not necessarily the best way, but it works for me and what i am trying to acheive in the scenario.

Of course a good tactic is to concentrate troops, but as many of them come as reinforcements it may be difficult because they appear on different places. Why not get them all at start ?

That is exactly what i tried to avoid. Simply because some players will approach the scenario different if they know what reinforcements they will get and on what turn. Some would wait, advance slowly and when the reinforcements arrive they would storm the defences in an overwhelming attack in force. IMHO it would not enhance gameplay (Especially if you are the defender ), and therefore as a designer i have several options to prevent this from happening - one is to not inform the player in the briefing. In addition the arrival of reinforcements can be more exciting and they would help to feed the battle as ammo runs out from the starting forces - this will ensure a well fought battle from start to finish without stalemates due to low ammo situations.

If not, I would like to see more information about reinforcement composition , i was really suprised by the quantity i get. I couldn't plan appropriately. If only i had known

I can understand what you are saying and i would ask that you view this from a different perspective - i have provided some pointers in my comments above and i am convinced that the scenario is more enjoyable to play for both sides without providing reinforcement composition and timing. I am sure there are some players who would prefer to have this info. Some designers also like to include this info in the briefing however i am one that prefers to keep players guessing and hoping/wishing for those badly needed reinforcements.

The german have a fair quantity of tanks , but few of them are actually able to fight the T-34s/KVs (i.e with a 75/L43 gun). Given that the T-34 can take them all at any distance on this map it is hard to match them.

You will find that all the German tanks in this scenario except the Short barrelled 75mm can take out the T34 frontally at any range on this map. Also, the T34's crew experience is much poorer than the Germans, usually the Germans get the first shots on target and can easily beat the russian armour with shoot and scoot tactics - the Russians are quite often unable to shoot fast enough or acurately enough.

The T-34s have terrifying anti-infantry capabilities with the cannister shot ! (it's an engine limitation).

More generally i think they may be too many tanks, both sides in the scenario (though i don't know from an historical point of view )

The Russians are outclassed in this scenario at almost every level - they do have some strong points though and the use of canister shot is one of them.

The sewer movement is very slow : 15-20 turn for a decent distance ! Not really usable in a 30 turns scenario.

With variable turn ending the scenario will typically last until turn 35. The sewer movement was seldom used in playtesting and most players tend not to do it because of the long time delays involved and the loss of valuable units in the process. But it is an option some may wish to take. Its a gamble, and the player must choose whether he wants to take that chance. It can effectively take those units out of the battle for up to 18 turns , it is more a game design issue than a scenario designer issue.

Anyway, enough complaining, and again, despite those critics i think it's an excellent scenario i learnt much from it and i had a great time playing it.

After all, the germans at Stalingrad were never able to control the city

I don't take it as complaining, it is important feedback that we all like to have. We cannot please every player or his playing style, but we can do our best to make it as much fun to play as possible for the majority of wargamers. I am glad that overall you like it and that you took time to post a review at the depot and to make more detailed comments here.

I have also posted more info over at the CMBB forum that also has some discussion about this scenario and others like it.

Best wishes to you from China

CDIC