RD / B & T tourney thread (spoiler)

[Capitalistdoginchina]

This scenario has now been released at the Scenario Depot for general use. Only a few minor adjustments were needed.

CDIC

[Tigre]

I agree completly with broken, or everybody knows about them or they are'nt any ...

for round two, the EFOW is very triky, it call's on the instinctive side of play to understand what's happening in the rage of battle and what is hiding or dead

keep your heads cold and never surender

[Tigre]

I agree completly with broken, or everybody knows about them or they are'nt any ...

for round two, the EFOW is very triky, it call's on the instinctive side of play to understand what's happening in the rage of battle and what is hiding or dead

keep your heads cold and never surender

[demoss]

Are we free to discuss the round 2 scenario? I liked it & thought it was a better test of skill than the round 1 scenario. I won't say more until I'm sure it's OK to give spoilers.

[Kingfish]

demoss,

I just received an e-mail from Cyberfox stating that round 3 has begun, so feel free to discuss the round 2 scenario.

[Scott B]

Bump.

I designed this scenario and am interested in what players thought of it. The scores indicate that rough parity exists between the two sides (the actual score balance was very close - average of 48-52), but with wide variance (the highest Axis score was 91; the lowest was 7). It was intended to be "spoilproof" - that is, it was designed to be played by someone that was playing both sides simultaneously in the tournament, and so there are no canned surprises.

Right now I am reviewing this battle for changes to the release version. I'm interested in what players' thoughts are with regard to balance and fun. What would you change? What did you enjoy/dislike?

Scott

[demoss]

I enjoyed it a lot. From the Russian perspective, I thought the way to go was to spread out, split the squads, and cover all the open approaches until the German axis of advance can be determined, then concentrate to oppose it. This worked reasonably well for me - my scores were 67 and 69, I think.

From the German perspective, it was tempting to send everything against one or two hills, then use that as a springboard against the third (which would probably not be prepared for assault from the "inside" of the ring). I decided against it because I knew the hill or hills left to the end would be able to hit me in the open with everything they had, so I went as evenly as I could against each hill, all at once, but concentrated at a single point of attack as much as practical to achieve serious local superiority.

As it turns out, my German opponent tried the approach I discarded, and was manhandled attacking the first hill (suffering roughly 2-1 casualties, as he ran into a .50 cal that inflicted 32 casualties on its own and two TRPs which were kept under mortar fire for some time) and then got hit just as hard attacking the other hills. Curiously, the hill he attacked first was my WEAKEST, with only one of the five platoons plus some reinforcements, but he still took it on the chin big-time, largely due to the .50 cal which could not have been in a better position given his line of attack.

My Russian opponent mostly declined the opportunity to hit me in the open, which (though understandable, given the usual superiority of Russian firepower at short range) was a mistake in my opinion. His wire didn't really accomplish anything either - the Russian wire really needs to block things off entirely to be useful, I think, and his didn't. Casualties were pretty even, but in the end the Russians auto-surrendered.

The German artillery was very hard to use, but not (quite) impossible. I got some use out of the 75, but the 81 mortar observer must have found a cache of vodka - his shells were falling all over the map. I didn't see any use gotten out of the PaK 36. I was lining mine up to take rear shots at a bunker when the Russians surrendered.

[demoss]

Anyone else? Bueller?

[tabpub]

This scenario worked well for a tourney, as there were many options for both sides to consider. The Russian could choose any style of defense and the German could choose to concentrate or to "spread" the defense. The designer was good to let both sides have choices.

As the Russian, I viewed this as "three eggs in a basket". I decided to use the higher level officers to give me more flexibility with my deployment. I placed trenches near the VL's with a 180 arc of wire around them at the near limit of visibility. Between the wire and the trench went a TRP. Each VL trench had a maxim, an Engineer Squad, and a 3 squad platoon. 2 of the postitions had a company co to coordinate. The best squads of the platoons had been stripped off to form a flying platoon with another company CO, along with a 4th platoon that was all veteran as I recall. The mines were laid across the gap between 204 and 198(hills); AP then AT. Both of the bunkers and the infantry guns were positioned to cover the mines. Sharpies and TH teams were scattered round the perimeter as LP/OP's. In the center valley all the mortars were concentrated under the command of a platoon CO. The T60's sat in reserve.

The German launched what appeared to be a full out assault on 204. The Platoon there defended with great panache, holding up the Huns for many minutes. The TRP enabled the mortars to fire upon the attackers and caused much consternation. The flying platoons moved up to either side of the hill to provide support. One launched a counterattack that had much intial success, but ran into a FT that broke it's back. On the other hand, two TH teams infiltrated the enemy rear. One KO'd a prime mover and the other ran into a large group of infantry that had been suppressed by the mortar fire and caused 17 casualties before succumbing!

But, the enemy AFVs were able to break through the lines and start down into the valley. The German infantry had had enough and stayed to hold the hill. 2 other platoons had attacked 198 and the STUG's were trying to support it. But one got Immob'd by many grenade hits and the other drove off toward 202 in a late attempt to deny it. At 198 the attack was held off by the short platoon that had been left there. One squad accounted for 26 Germans with 1 loss of his own. End score Russian 61 German 39

As the Germans, I broke in to 3 groups. 1 company with STG to take 198, another simiar group for 204 and the pioneers and the other STG in the center to head for the valley and then up behind any Russian defenders. This plan fell apart from the beginning.

Both assault companies almost immediately came under fire. The Russian had deployed in force forward! Almost as if he had read my mind! The company attacking 204 was decimated in minutes, as it was caught in the brush going up the hill. Later it was determined that a Maxim gun there accounted for 43! German casualties. That MG and 2 mortars broke the back of that attack. The mortars pinned my men in the open and the MG raked them. The support STG was woefully out of position, and when it did race to the scene, it was tracked by a infantry gun! It did get both the gun and the MG, but was out of the action now.

The group attacking 198 had no better luck. Stopped intially in a similar, but not as devastating manner, they pressed on; helped by the close presence of the STG. Unfortunately, the anxious batt CO called in 75mm how's from the regiment and a short round wrecked the suspension of the STG. The infantry tried to press on, but Russian reserves and mines stymied them. The center force, caught off guard, attempted to counterattack the flanks of both Russian defense nodes. Enemy mortar and MG fire quickly ended the advance across the open snow and the support STG was called away to help save the first immobilized STG that was being threatened by a T60.

End result German 31 Russian 69

An eerily same, but then again different outcome than the prior battle. The one constant in both Russian defenses was that hill 202 was less guarded than the others. This is due to the fact that it is more heavily wooded, precluding the close in support of the STG's. In retrospect, maybe this is exactly where the attack should go in, as the defense would not be set in this direction.

Hindsight = 20/20 vision...of course.

[von Lucke]

Was very favorably impressed by this scenario --- as has been mentioned, it allows for a lot of flexibility on the part of both attacker and defender. Matter of fact, it demands it.

As the Sovs, I agonized over how to defend all three hills --- and then finally gave up and concentrated everything on Hill 198, leaving only a series of strategically placed minefields, barbed wire, snipers, and tank hunter teams to slow down the German advance elsewhere.

Actually, my "Fire Base" defense worked rather well, since my opponent went with the One-Company-per-Hill attack strategy: I wiped out his initial attack on Hill 198 to the man, and a single tank hunter team stalled an entire company at Hill 204 for 2-3 turns (I think losing that first company made him a bit gun-shy).

He eventually moved his other two companies within range of my mortars, MG's, and field guns, and I kept him pinned down for the rest of the game, as he couldn't cross all that open ground under fire. (Though he did try, and ended up loosing almost all of another company in the attempt --- and did loose all of his Recon Platoon to an ambush that I sprung right in the middle of his movement across my position: Very ugly). I ended up with a 71% win, even though he controlled two VL's, just on casualties inflicted.

Playing as the Sovs gave me a big appreciation for the defenders advantage in this scenario. If the German isn't cautiously methodical, it'll cost him. As I found out:

As the German, I decided on a "rolling attack", where I would attack Hill 204 with two Companies, then move across to Hill 202 with the survivors, while the third Company would join in with an oblique that would hopefully catch the defenders aimed at Hill 204. Then everybody would try and swing around from Hill 202 and hit Hill 198 --- while my Recon platoon snuck up on them from the rear. I spread the Engineers and StuG's out evenly among the Companies, and the 37mm I just ignored. The panzerjaeger teams I spread out on the perimeter to act as scouts, and to react to wherever the T60's might be.

As it worked out, I took Hill 204 without much trouble --- mostly because I used an 81mm barrage to keep the defenders heads down, and then Snuck my troops up from two different directions, and then used my engineers and flamethrowers to good effect. Hill 202 turned out to be a tougher nut to crack --- especially since my opponent had seeded the ground between the two hills with troops, mortars, and MG's!

Took me almost the entire game to slog my way from Hill 204 to 202. And then I made the mistake of Assaulting his positions there (instead of Sneaking) and was repulsed with heavy losses. By the time I moved up reinforcements (and my StuG's) to take him on again, game was almost over.

This also forced me to try and take the last VL (on Hill 198) with just my Recon platoon. Thought the hill was almost undefended, since I'd seen a platoon of Sovs moving from there to reinforce Hill 204. Wrong! My Recon boys (what was left of 'em) fell back into the woods with heavy casualties.

Final result was one VL for each of us, and one contested. I ended up with a win, at 58% - 42%, but it was a hard fought thing. My opponent, Majic, is to be commended for a very well thought out defense --- he had my axes of advance pegged, and had a reverse-slope defense set up just about everywhere I needed to go. (Though, I did take out both of his T60's with a single panzerjaeger team, heheh).

As I said at the beginning, very well done scenario, especially for two equally matched players --- I was white-knuckling it as the attacker, right up to the end. (Speaking of which, why no Variable Ending?)

[ May 20, 2003, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: von Lucke ]