Zones of Control This must be implemented !

[Fieldmarshall]

Okay, this might just be my opinion, but Victory Flags, just don't do it for me in battles. I believe, that you should have a "zone of control" option (or Flag also for certain battles etc.) but I think a ZoC option would give more of a challenge to the player because, instead of holding a little 3 x 3 meter sector of land you can get you a Total victory when you really don't deserve it, and it causes those damn flag rushes..which I must admit I am guilty of. These flags can in most cases but not all(therefor dont get rid of them..just limit their use)create an a-historical situation, I beleive that if you have a flag to mark a crossroad, then implement a zone of controll, which is the scenario designers choosing..say by simaler way the set-up zones are created in the editor. Then, certain conditions have to be met in order to completely hold that "ZoC" and that would give the player more victory points, instead of placing a dippy empty spotter on or near a flag and winning...this would provide a much needed challenge to the game, and would have great effects on urban battles. But dont get rid of the flags, they are great for bridges and things...

whos with me!?

BTS LETS HAVE ZONE OF CONTROL!!!

--Niles

[WWB]

Uh, last time I checked, Victory Flags were handled like a zone of control. CM checks the area around the flag to see who controls it. And the area checked is bigger than 3x3m.

WWB

[Fieldmarshall]

no no..victory flags, are way to small in scale to amount to anything realistic, I mean 50 x 50 meters, with true control, not putting an HQ unit on it, and winning the game.

[WWB]

You can control uncontested VLs from 40-50m away. I think the computer uses LOS to determine it, but I have done it many times.

WWB

[gredeker]

For some reason, I am under the impression that the game looks at a 20m x 20m square for the small flags and a 40m x 40m square for the big ones. Can anyone answer for certain?

[Moon]

How would you define "true control", Fieldmarshall?

[Vanir Ausf B]

An uncontested flag can be controled by a unit up to 80m away. If the flag is contested units must generally be within 60m to influence ownership. This may vary with other factors and with flag size. So, yes, a flag is a zone of control.

[Louie the Toad]

Zones of control are for board games. If you can't protect it, you don't deserve it. If you think the last minute rush is gamey .... don't do it and don't play with anyone who does it. Or use the end game randomizer.

Simply Toad

[Iron Chef Sakai]

here is a question about flags in general, in cmbb will the germans have their real flags from the period modeled? or will we have to have the world warI imperial german flags? i'm not big on nazis or anything, but if their flag is in a realistic game about world war 2 it would'nt offend me. the Soviets under Lenin and Stalin massacred more innocent people then the scum bag nazi leaders, will the hammer and sickle be replaced with the russian world warI flag as well?

[argie]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Iron Chef Sakai:

here is a question about flags in general, in cmbb will the germans have their real flags from the period modeled? or will we have to have the world warI imperial german flags? i'm not big on nazis or anything, but if their flag is in a realistic game about world war 2 it would'nt offend me. the Soviets under Lenin and Stalin massacred more innocent people then the scum bag nazi leaders, will the hammer and sickle be replaced with the russian world warI flag as well?<hr></blockquote>

The Swastika is banned in some cuntries, like Germany, which are a big wargames market.

Also, as was pointed once and again, quantity doesn't matter when talking on attrocities.

[Iron Chef Sakai]

ok well that makes sense, figures it comes down to money, ie the german ban. why is it banned in a computer game about world war 2 though, i don't get it.

[Iron Chef Sakai]

how come the ss symbols are in the game then? i mean did'nt they have a big hand in those atrocties? i understand the waffen ss were not the ones doing it, but the symbol for the ss and waffen ss remain the same.

again i do not like nazis, but in this case it just doesnt add up. i mean people did'nt ban the cross after the spanish inquisition did they?

i'm not tryiong to start a crusade here or anything, my only point is that some stupid swastika on a computer game is not going to make me think it's cool or something, and morons who actualy do think it's cool are going to whether it's modeled in a computer game or not.

any thoughts?

[Mr. Johnson--]

hmmm, Logic and Politicians. yeah they don't go together.

[AKCowboy]

The powers that be probably don't view a computer 'game' (even a historically accurate one) in a serious light. Kind of like calling a comic book a "graphic novel". It still just doesn't go over with them. I don't necessarily agree with it either, then again, I wasn't directly affected by the Holocost.

[Mace]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fieldmarshall:

BTS LETS HAVE ZONE OF CONTROL!!!<hr></blockquote>

Argh!

Zones of control model the operational reach of a large military unit in conventional wargames (makes up for the shortfall of not modelling each element within this military unit).

Perhaps you need a alternative term for what you're after?

Mace

[Iron Chef Sakai]

i created a topic about this in the forum so i don't intrude on someones elses thread, it's titled flags in CMBB

[Fieldmarshall]

Fine we will come up with a more politically correct term than Zone of Control..how about Sphere of Influence???? Also, those stupid kraut hypocrites, the next replacement for the German flag is displayed below:

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Fieldmarshall ]

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Fieldmarshall ]

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Fieldmarshall ]</p>

[Seanachai]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fieldmarshall:

Fine we will come up with a more politically correct term than Zone of Control..how about Sphere of Influence???? Also, those stupid kraut hypocrites, the next replacement for the swastika is displayed below:

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Fieldmarshall ]<hr></blockquote>

I didn't think you could become more tedious, but it just goes to show.

You display no intelligent perception of the way the (admittedly flawed, but not in the way you suppose) VLs behave in Combat Mission. And your sudden 'political' consciousness helps to explain why Totalitarian and Fascist regimes are able to so often and easily come to power. It's no great challenge to drive sheep.

[Tanaka]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fieldmarshall:

...Also, those stupid kraut hypocrites, the next replacement for the swastika is displayed below:

<hr></blockquote>

I'm not a 1st language English speaker... but, after reading your post a few times I'm trying very hard to see something ok with it... and I can't.

I'm not sure what your are trying to say/want or wish to explain... but try put your own country/state flag on it, and you will see how I feel

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Tanaka ]</p>

[Seanachai]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Iron Chef Sakai:

how come the ss symbols are in the game then? i mean did'nt they have a big hand in those atrocties? i understand the waffen ss were not the ones doing it, but the symbol for the ss and waffen ss remain the same.

again i do not like nazis, but in this case it just doesnt add up. i mean people did'nt ban the cross after the spanish inquisition did they?

i'm not tryiong to start a crusade here or anything, my only point is that some stupid swastika on a computer game is not going to make me think it's cool or something, and morons who actualy do think it's cool are going to whether it's modeled in a computer game or not.

any thoughts?<hr></blockquote>

Here, why don't you try this:

Try to post as often, but with less attitude. Try to remain inquisitive, but don't assume that people of far more experience in the world are bloody morons who do things for no reason.

Try, now, young person (and, frankly, I imagine you are very young, and I don't regard that as a put down, but you should regard this explanation as being more significant than your need to be regarded as an adult) to imagine a nation guilty of the one of the most significant atrocities in contemporary history. Try to imagine, if you can, a nation that methodically and without benefit of the qualm of conscience, sent millions of people to death as though they were nothing more than infected farm animals that had to be properly disposed of. Can you imagine that?

I hope not. I hope no one can assume the mind-set necessary for a crime like that.

Now, try to imagine a nation, scarred by war, racked by guilt, anxious to reassume their position in the international community, and yet burdened by a past in which they'd committed the worst of crimes, the deepest of atrocities. Imagine them saying: Never Again.

Never again will our nation committ genocide. Never again will our nation be known for their bigotry and racism. Never again will the canker in our soul find another voice, to destroy us all.

And so Germany enacted laws, contrary to our own freedoms, to limit the ability of their demons to rise again. They traded personal freedom of expression against the desire to never again be the perpetrators of horror.

Honour them their desire, and understand the choice they made. Or shut up. It's all one to those who understand the choices this proud but anguished people have made in the pursuit of No More Treblinkas.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Seanachai ]</p>

[aka_tom_w]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seanachai:

Here, why don't you try this:

Try to post as often, but with less attitude. Try to remain inquisitive, but don't assume that people of far more experience in the world are bloody morons who do things for no reason.

Try, now, young person (and, frankly, I imagine you are very young, and I don't regard that as a put down, but you should regard this explanation as being more significant than your need to be regarded as an adult) to imagine a nation guilty of the one of the most significant atrocities in contemporary history. Try to imagine, if you can, a nation that methodically and without benefit of the qualm of conscience, sent millions of people to death as though they were nothing more than infected farm animals that had to be properly disposed of. Can you imagine that?

I hope not. I hope no one can assume the mind-set necessary for a crime like that.

Now, try to imagine a nation, scarred by war, racked by guilt, anxious to reassume their position in the international community, and yet burdened by a past in which they'd committed the worst of crimes, the deepest of atrocities. Imagine them saying: Never Again.

Never again will our nation committ genocide. Never again will our nation be known for their bigotry and racism. Never again will the canker in our soul find another voice, to destroy us all.

And so Germany enacted laws, contrary to our own freedoms, to limit the ability of their demons to rise again. They traded personal freedom of expression against the desire to never again be the perpetrators of horror.

Honour them their desire, and understand the choice they made. Or shut up. It's all one to those who understand the choices this proud but anguished people have made in the pursuit of No More Treblinkas.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Seanachai ]<hr></blockquote>

WOW!!

Wery Well Put

Very well written!

I hope that perhaps some of the younger readers of this thread will appreciate the issue here.

It was also communicated EXTREMELY effectively in the 9th episode of Band of Brothers, but not so eloquently as was written above.

kudos

-tom w

[Fieldmarshall]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tanaka:

I'm not a 1st language English speaker... but, after reading your post a few times I'm trying very hard to see something ok with it... and I can't.

I'm not sure what your are trying to say/want or wish to explain... but try put your own country/state flag on it, and you will see how I feel

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Tanaka ]<hr></blockquote>

Nah, I am just having a little laugh, implying that the Germans are dominating the European Union, not to suggest that Germany will once again commit genocide etc. it just says that germany will soon be the only real leader in the EU, not the French...not to say that anyone will be slaughtered.

[Panzer Leader]

Seanachai, you truly are my tutor. Behold, the Jedi Master!

[Oops!]

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Panzer Leader ]</p>

[Berlichtingen]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Fieldmarshall:

Fine we will come up with a more politically correct term than Zone of Control..how about Sphere of Influence???? Also, those stupid kraut hypocrites, the next replacement for the German flag is displayed below:<hr></blockquote>

That, sir, was way the hell out of line

[Berlichtingen]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seanachai:

And so Germany enacted laws, contrary to our own freedoms, to limit the ability of their demons to rise again. They traded personal freedom of expression against the desire to never again be the perpetrators of horror. <hr></blockquote>

I am really surprised to see you make this mistake. Contrary to our own freedoms? The Swastika is not completely banned in Germany. For instance, if you are writing a book on the history of the period, the swastika may be used. The are not allowed in games. As for our 'freedoms', when was the last time you saw nudity used in ads like it is in Europe, or when was the last time you saw a commercial on TV for cigarettes? The German law was enacted by a democratically elected government and as such is most definitely not contrary to our own freedoms.

[steps off pulpit]