Medic / buddy aid

[Vacillator]

I'm wondering whether buddy aid actually happens in CMRT or whether it is my behaviour in CMRT that stops it happening? 

So far in an admittedly fairly short career, I have never seen 'medic' displayed in a unit's status and have never seen any effect on adjacent incapacitated comrades.  I know it is unlikely if enemy units are close or there is incoming fire, but of course this has not always been the case.  I assume it happens in all difficulty levels, as I have not made it up to the toughest yet ?

Also I'm wondering what is actually meant to happen?  Are 'aided' casualties meant to be patched up and get on with their mission, or leave the battlefield but not count as casualties?

Edit: not sure how my text above ended up with a non-existent link

Edited July 3, 2020 by Vacilllator

[George MC]

It happens in CMRT. I’m playing a PBEM and I’ve had my scout teams mauled. Survivors were busy providing first aid. Does depend on what else is going on around them and their morale situation though. 

[Erwin]

Have found the best way to encourage units to deliver medical aid is to have them HIDE directly on top of the WIA with a short covered arc (to mitigate distractions).  Often that means SLOW moving the medic so they are directly on top of the WIA.   Bear in mind that in my experience some units never seem to want to give aid for unknown reasons.  Most will aid units even if not from their formation.

[Vacillator]

Thanks gentlemen, if you say so it must be true. Some experimenting is in order methinks.

So do the aided WIA jump up and exact revenge or disappear never to be seen again (which I think is what I read somewhere)?

[Holman]

Units never come back into battle, but aid helps your WIA/KIA ratio at the end of the scenario.

You also collect ammo and sometimes even weapons from  aided soldiers.

[Vacillator]

5 minutes ago, Holman said:

Units never come back into battle, but aid helps your WIA/KIA ratio at the end of the scenario.

You also collect ammo and sometimes even weapons from  aided soldiers.

Yes that's pretty much what I thought thanks, I now just have to get it to happen

[Placebo]

The first aider has to be in the same square of the map, it can be hard to judge somethings when the soldier seems to be across the edges of 2 squares.  As I have found trying to get hold of a precious MG42 or AT rocket from a fallen soldier.   

As already said it also boosts you casualty figures at the end as well even though they take no further part in the battle. 

[mjkerner]

Your dead-dead (dark red-brown base, IIRC—I am using a base mod so not sure what the default colors are), as opposed to incapacitated wounded (bright red base), will not technically get buddy aided, only a quick weapons/ammo scrounge. After all these years, I still don’t know if the “refusal” to buddy aid is actually the pixeltruppen knowing there is nothing to scrounge off a dead buddy or not. Too lazy to test or bother to watch that closely, lol.

[Erwin]

IIRC "medicaid" for a KIA is much quicker (ie re grabbing weapons and ammo) than for a WIA for obvious reasons.  But, they will administer aid even if they PU nothing.

[Vacillator]

2 hours ago, mjkerner said:

Too lazy to test or bother to watch that closely, lol.

I hear what you're saying

[MOS:96B2P]

Below is a thread discussing buddy aid that may be interesting.  Many questions were asked, discussed and answered in the thread.

 

 

 

The below was copied from the above linked thread:

WIA (red base) can turn to KIA (brown base) from additional hits.

Buddy Aid is one on one however a team can treat multiple casualties in the same A/S concurrently.

A team administering Buddy Aid will recover ammo including ammo for weapons they do not have in the team.

Buddy aid on KIA (brown base) was about 15 - 35 seconds. On WIA (red base) about 1 minute – 2 minutes 30 seconds.

Casualties only disappear if they receive Buddy Aid. I tested 2 KIA & 2 WIA for 1½ hours game time. They never disappeared.

Experience of the teams administering buddy aid did not affect the length of buddy aid or the amount of equipment recovered.

Lightly wounded (yellow base) are not counted as casualties on the AAR screen.

To share ammo recovered in buddy aid the medic team must be part of the unit (“highlighted” unit) needing the ammo.

During testing on average about 2 grenades and 170 rounds of ammo were recovered per casualty. I know from playing the game other                                equipment (radios, binoculars, some weapons etc.) can also be recovered but I did not try for that in the experiments.

WIA (red base) incapacitated wounded are not counted in Parameter/Condition but are counted in Parameter/Casualties.

Buddy aid does not make a difference to the score in Quick Battles or in Scenarios.

Buddy aid does not make a difference to the score in a Campaign.

Buddy aid may only make a difference as a tie breaker in a CM tournament . 

A little disappointed that Buddy Aid has no affect on the score. 

Buddy Aid will keep a WIA from becoming a KIA.  However both KIA and WIA are counted as casualties so the score does not change.  The AAR screen will count KIA and WIA separately but they are both counted as casualties for scoring purposes.  

Below is a method you can use to encourage your troops to administer Buddy Aid I learned this from @IanL  

If the casualty is not in or near the center of the action spot give the unit to perform buddy aid a Slow order to an action square that takes them directly over the casualty. Then I give them a pause of 20s, 30s or 45s depending on how far away the casualty is. Push the BRB. In the next command phase they will be directly over the casualty.  Then cancel the remaining Slow order and issue a Face command.

Edited July 4, 2020 by MOS:96B2P

[Vacillator]

3 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

If the casualty is not in or near the center of the action spot give the unit to perform buddy aid a Slow order to an action square that takes them directly over the casualty. Then I give them a pause of 20s, 30s or 45s depending on how far away the casualty is. Push the BRB. In the next command phase they will be directly over the casualty.  Then cancel the remaining Slow order and issue a Face command.

Thanks for that, I think I had read it before during a search of the forums, but I hadn't really taken the above bit in.  Will have to try that.  Seems however that even if successful, I won't gain a lot in normal battles or campaigns other than perhaps sharing ammo and equipment.

[Erwin]

Well, if you like playing in a realistic manner giving aid seems like the "right" thing to do.  Your pixeltruppen will thank you and work even harder for you in the next battle.

[mjkerner]

I agree with Erwin.  I always buddy aid my men,  even at times when the rest of the team/squad is really needed elsewhere.  Like a lot of others, I use 2ic's and (occasionally) crews for that duty too, but prefer to have the same team/squad do it when possible, since they can use the weapons/ammo more than the other types. I always move bailed crews to the rear ASAP anyway, but the occasional casualty littering the path of advance is a good subject for their first aid skills.  

[Combatintman]

Or don't get your dudes shot ... just sayin' 

[Bulletpoint]

On 7/3/2020 at 10:07 PM, mjkerner said:

After all these years, I still don’t know if the “refusal” to buddy aid is actually the pixeltruppen knowing there is nothing to scrounge off a dead buddy or not. Too lazy to test or bother to watch that closely, lol.

I think maybe it might be the opposite actually - because they know they won't be able to carry the additional ammo?

In other cases, it's because the downed buddy is actually not in the same action square. It can be difficult to see exactly where they are. Using the casualty marker base as a reference works better than looking at the location of the pixelbody.

[Warts 'n' all]

Yes, it is always really annoying if some one gets shot right in the corner of an AS and you have to waste time getting their mates in the same one.

[MikeyD]

With buddy aid you'll see priority weapons picked up if the aid giver hasn't exceeded his weight limit. That sometimes makes for novel weapons mixes, like CMSF2 unarmed spies carrying machine guns.

Buddy aid isn't just a benefit, it's also a game penalty. If you get one of your men wounded your firepower will be further reduced with someone needing to perform triage. I recall back in the early 80s the US was designing weapons specifically meant to maim instead of kill (flechette rounds, toe popper mines etc) under the theory that it'll take more than just the wounded out of the firefight. Those got banned by international convention.

[Erwin]

2 hours ago, MikeyD said:

With buddy aid you'll see priority weapons picked up if the aid giver hasn't exceeded his weight limit. That sometimes makes for novel weapons mixes, like CMSF2 unarmed spies carrying machine guns.

Also, super squads with 3 MG's etc.

[Bufo]

16 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Those got banned by international convention.

US and Russia didnt sign the agreement to ban AP land mines.

[Bulletpoint]

6 hours ago, Bufo said:

US and Russia didnt sign the agreement to ban AP land mines.

And flechettes are not banned by international convention.

[Bufo]

6 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

And flechettes are not banned by international convention.

Yes, but expanding bullets are banned for example.

"Bullets Which Expand or Flatten Easily in the Human Body"

Edited July 6, 2020 by Bufo

[Erwin]

Ah yes... my dad used to tell me about those so-called "dum dum" bullets the Germans were using.  I quoted him at (primary) school for a WW2 project and got in trouble for upsetting folks.    

[Lethaface]

On 7/6/2020 at 10:50 PM, Erwin said:

Ah yes... my dad used to tell me about those so-called "dum dum" bullets the Germans were using.  I quoted him at (primary) school for a WW2 project and got in trouble for upsetting folks.    

There are many types of bullets which are 'non full metal jacket', which are not permitted for military use. The name 'Dum Dum' comes from a British factory. Also it was actually Germany who originally pleaded for the banning of expanding bullets (long before WW2).

At the same time for hunting expanding bullets are often mandatory.

[Field Oggy]

17 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

There are many types of bullets which are 'non full metal jacket', which are not permitted for military use. The name 'Dum Dum' comes from a British factory. Also it was actually Germany who originally pleaded for the banning of expanding bullets (long before WW2).

At the same time for hunting expanding bullets are often mandatory.

That would be an Indian factory.